New Paludarium Seeker, looking for heat - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-08-2020, 04:34 AM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3
Lightbulb New Paludarium Seeker, looking for heat

Hello all,

I live up in minnesota, and found ThePlantedTank through the internet. I'm new to the technology in paludariums, but have some experience in aquatic and terrestrial plants and animals. I want to be sure to set up my first paludarium so it will happily support all the life inside, but I've been a bit stuck on appropriate heating.

I'll be running full/broad spectrum LED lights for the land and water lights with animals (likely some a small frog or two and some cold water fish). I have a vertically oriented tank and am comfortable keeping the water at its natural 70*F in my home. I'm curious about heating and have been looking into bulbs, heating elements, and heating bulbs (incandescent?). I need to heat the terrestrial area to support life. I like the idea of heating both the terrestrial and aquatic area with one heating pad on the side of the the vertical tank I'll be using, but I'm a bit worried a little frog may want to warm up too much while climbing across the glass. What's my best option? Any ideas would be great!

Thank you,

aaron
newpal is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-08-2020, 01:01 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
minorhero's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by newpal View Post
Hello all,

I live up in minnesota, and found ThePlantedTank through the internet. I'm new to the technology in paludariums, but have some experience in aquatic and terrestrial plants and animals. I want to be sure to set up my first paludarium so it will happily support all the life inside, but I've been a bit stuck on appropriate heating.

I'll be running full/broad spectrum LED lights for the land and water lights with animals (likely some a small frog or two and some cold water fish). I have a vertically oriented tank and am comfortable keeping the water at its natural 70*F in my home. I'm curious about heating and have been looking into bulbs, heating elements, and heating bulbs (incandescent?). I need to heat the terrestrial area to support life. I like the idea of heating both the terrestrial and aquatic area with one heating pad on the side of the the vertical tank I'll be using, but I'm a bit worried a little frog may want to warm up too much while climbing across the glass. What's my best option? Any ideas would be great!

Thank you,

aaron
What you plan for the tank will drive your heating solution. Most frogs that would want a water area (reed frog for example) does not need UV and will in fact hide for most of the day if one is provided. In the wild they will bask for a part of the day and then stay out of direct sunlight. This translates to hiding in captivity. So skip the UV if planning for a frog. If you want a water feature don't go with dart frogs as they can be problematic with them. But if you have a significant water feature you should consider how you plan to filter the water. If you have drilled your tank and attached a canister filter, consider simply using a canister filter with a heater attached or inline heater. The water temperature will heat the tank. BUT, its probably not needed. Most critters you would keep in a paludarium are good with room temperature. Again what you keep will drive this decision.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
minorhero is online now  
post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-08-2020, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by minorhero View Post
What you plan for the tank will drive your heating solution. Most frogs that would want a water area (reed frog for example) does not need UV and will in fact hide for most of the day if one is provided. In the wild they will bask for a part of the day and then stay out of direct sunlight. This translates to hiding in captivity. So skip the UV if planning for a frog. If you want a water feature don't go with dart frogs as they can be problematic with them. But if you have a significant water feature you should consider how you plan to filter the water. If you have drilled your tank and attached a canister filter, consider simply using a canister filter with a heater attached or inline heater. The water temperature will heat the tank. BUT, its probably not needed. Most critters you would keep in a paludarium are good with room temperature. Again what you keep will drive this decision.
Thank you MinorHero,

I was hoping to create a gentle slope at water level to support the frog if it goes for a swim. I heard Dart frogs, as you said, have a hard time in the water, but also, that they can swim ok.

I was not planning on a canister filter, as this is my first paludarium and I'm planning on putting it together inexpensively. I'll probably get a submersible pump/filter to create a waterfall to support oxygen in the water and humidity, something like this (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086ZQY17T...ing=UTF8&psc=1). Do you think a heating pad on the side of the tank would create a risk of the frog burning itself? Else, I'll probably use a heating element, or an incandescent bulb.

Thanks again!
newpal is offline  
 
post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-08-2020, 08:15 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
minorhero's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by newpal View Post
Thank you MinorHero,

I was hoping to create a gentle slope at water level to support the frog if it goes for a swim. I heard Dart frogs, as you said, have a hard time in the water, but also, that they can swim ok.

I was not planning on a canister filter, as this is my first paludarium and I'm planning on putting it together inexpensively. I'll probably get a submersible pump/filter to create a waterfall to support oxygen in the water and humidity, something like this (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086ZQY17T...ing=UTF8&psc=1). Do you think a heating pad on the side of the tank would create a risk of the frog burning itself? Else, I'll probably use a heating element, or an incandescent bulb.

Thanks again!
I'm assuming that you are planning for a dart frog?

If so, then 1) you do not need a heater. Dart Frogs are ideal at temperatures ranging from 65-75 and can go for periods both a bit warmer and colder. So long as you are not staying in the 90s+ or 50- then they will be fine. In fact you are better going cooler then hotter as they can start to die in 80+ degrees sustained temperatures depending on humidity. Even LED lights will add 2-4 degrees just by themselves so if your house is at 70 degrees then you not only don't need a heater, you don't want one.

2) Unless your tank is providing at least 36 inches of horizontal space I would skip the water feature. There are some misconceptions going around about their ability to deal with water. Its not that they can't swim, its rather that a dominant frog fighting another frog can drown the less dominant frog in water and this is the easiest way to lose a frog. People might not see this though and instead just find a dead frog drowned in water and assume they couldn't swim. Even if you don't have this issue water features are harder to maintain in a dart frog tank then say an aquarium because a) frogs poop in the water which is a lot of nutrients going in that won't get filtered out (poop being too big to go through a filter), b) feeder insects and clean up crew can and will die in water at a rate at least equal to the frogs eating them, c) vitamin dust will get in the water fouling it, d) the water tends to stink and become discolored because of the reasons just mentioned, e) water features tend to DRAMATICALLY increase humidity and dampness of substrate in tanks. This is a huge problem because the frogs need to be kept at 60-80% humidity with options to dry out completely during the day (ie not stand on something wet) or they will develop bacterial and/or fungal infections of their skin. These can be dramatically horrible ways for the frogs to die, and finally f) while the dart frogs won't ignore the water feature, they also do not need the water feature and thus its a space that is wasted from keeping the frogs.

If you have at least 36" of tank space you have enough room to include a water feature and still have room for the frogs to do their thing. Even then I wouldn't include an open water feature like a pool or stream. Instead I would do a dripping branch/rock/wall section leading straight to a gravel bed where the water goes down into the substrate and does not pool on the surface. Speaking of substrate, in any tank that has a water feature your substrate needs to be aquarium friendly (since this is basically what you are making in the tank). So no ABG mix. Instead go with aquarium aquasoil and/or calcined clay (like turface or safe-t-sorb). These substrates don't fall apart and rot when exposed to water.

If you decide to go with a frog that is not entirely terrestrial (like a reed frog) you won't have the same issues with the frog dying from excess damp or humidity. You will still need to find ways to deal with your water feature not being super yucky but at least then you go into it knowing you need the water feature.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
minorhero is online now  
post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-11-2020, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3
Minorhero,

This is amazing, I truly appreciate the time and detail you shared. I am thankfully rethinking the original plan. I am certain I won't be putting a day frog in a paludarium.

Thank you!
newpal is offline  
post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-12-2020, 04:05 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
minorhero's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by newpal View Post
Minorhero,

This is amazing, I truly appreciate the time and detail you shared. I am thankfully rethinking the original plan. I am certain I won't be putting a day frog in a paludarium.

Thank you!
Glad to be of help, sorry to be such a downer. On the plus side, dart frogs are pretty easy to keep if you don't have the water feature.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
minorhero is online now  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome