Rhizoclonium - how to deal with quickly - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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Rhizoclonium - how to deal with quickly

Alrighty, as most of you know I started my tank around a month ago, got my super light on boxing day, 2x96W... EI dosing, DIY CO2 etc etc... suffering from some Rhizoclonium algae over the past week and a half or less, tried a W/C, vac'd all algae off plants and rubbed it off, cleaned up filter media, even tried a light H2O2 dosing, worked somewhat, but not enough as it's come back...

also cut photoperiod down and lowered the light intensity by using just one bulb for the time being, used both today and no difference in growth

the algae isn't really a problem, but more of a distraction, water is still super clear, just have this junk sort of free floating from my stemmed plants

also, i've changed up my dosing to see if I can combat it, not working, nor is an increase in CO2 which I tried




any ideas?






or would a short bleach dip work on the plants?

my most affected plants are,

singapore/christmas moss
limnophila sessiflora
Ceratopteris thalictroides

other mentionables include,
bacopa moneri
rotala
reineckii

all other plants have either negligable or no algae....what livestock will eat it?
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 10:22 PM
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How big is your tank?
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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40G breeder tank so really 44 G or so...36x18x15.5
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 12:44 AM
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Do 2-3x a week water change, 50% etc, clean off all you can each time, turn lights off for 3 days, disconnect CO2 during this time, add Excel at full lablled rate after each water change.

You may do a daily water change+ Excel+ blackout for 3 days to really beat it back good.

However, you need to really work on CO2...........

DIY CO2+ high nuke light?
Excellent way to culture Rhizo........

You cannot induce it other ways, at least I never have after 15 years.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 02:22 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
Do 2-3x a week water change, 50% etc, clean off all you can each time, turn lights off for 3 days, disconnect CO2 during this time, add Excel at full lablled rate after each water change.

You may do a daily water change+ Excel+ blackout for 3 days to really beat it back good.

However, you need to really work on CO2...........

DIY CO2+ high nuke light?
Excellent way to culture Rhizo........

You cannot induce it other ways, at least I never have after 15 years.

Regards,
Tom Barr


the only thing is, i use a short photo period anyways, and DIY co2 is with 4 bottles now.... which is yielding 3bps from my bubble counter..... and my co2 chart readings give me about 42ppm, with 6.2 PH and KH @ 40ppm


don't have a drop checker though - may invest in one over time as well as pressurized




but thanks, going to change some water again today
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 03:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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also, should i continue with regular ferts? Or cut all together? and just do excel?
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 03:47 PM
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Ferts are not the issue.
CO2 is/was.

While you might have plenty according to a test now, did you test and did you pay attention to the tank like this poor to the algae bloom?

Once induced, the algae will often hang on aggressively, I might say literally, for dear life, and adult algae are much much tougher than spores......even if you correct the normal parameter issue that induces the spores.

So you have to be more aggressive to get rid of what is there or/and more patient.

Then keep up on things in the future.
Even if you reduce the photoperoid, you still have an insane amount of light.
Your Achillies heel is the DIY CO2.

Do more water changes for now, do the blackout + Excel for now and then do 2-3x a week water changes and cleaning/pruning.

It's not a hard alga to get rid of, but requires more work than some seem to think/want.

There is little trick to algae other than providing good consistent conditions for plants.

More light= more CO2 demand= less stability, harder to maintain and keep up on but faster growth.

You'd be much better of using 2x 39W T5's for this tank.
There is no plant you cannot grow using that and it's 3x less light.
Add Gas tanks for the CO2 rather than too much light.
$ much better spent.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2008, 04:22 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
Ferts are not the issue.
CO2 is/was.

While you might have plenty according to a test now, did you test and did you pay attention to the tank like this poor to the algae bloom?

Once induced, the algae will often hang on aggressively, I might say literally, for dear life, and adult algae are much much tougher than spores......even if you correct the normal parameter issue that induces the spores.

So you have to be more aggressive to get rid of what is there or/and more patient.

Then keep up on things in the future.
Even if you reduce the photoperoid, you still have an insane amount of light.
Your Achillies heel is the DIY CO2.

Do more water changes for now, do the blackout + Excel for now and then do 2-3x a week water changes and cleaning/pruning.

It's not a hard alga to get rid of, but requires more work than some seem to think/want.

There is little trick to algae other than providing good consistent conditions for plants.

More light= more CO2 demand= less stability, harder to maintain and keep up on but faster growth.

You'd be much better of using 2x 39W T5's for this tank.
There is no plant you cannot grow using that and it's 3x less light.
Add Gas tanks for the CO2 rather than too much light.
$ much better spent.

Regards,
Tom Barr

thanks, however there was no lack of treatment/attention payed to this tank when this hit, not very substantial but enough for me to go "bah algae, what to do?"


i've done b2b2b waterchanges three days now, won't touch again until friday night.... trimming/vac'ing algae off, not hard to get rid of... as for testing before algae bloom etc... i tested every third day, and even have a spread sheet lol small fluctuations but nothing out of a 2-4 ppm change
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2008, 05:21 AM
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Well, Rhizo means a serious issue and it's been induced in control tanks several times using nothing more than CO2.

I had my first dealing with it in 1994 with DIY and adding 160W over a 55 gal tank. I can induce it pretty well if I reduce the CO2, other species also appear.
High light is a great way to make the rounds with algae.
High light + DIY is even better.

You can claim you did everything perfect, but no one does.
You have to make double sure.
Everytime I said that, I found something I over looked.

Algae just does not appear when you take good care of the tank and stay on top of things, many like to believe so but that is not the case.

Algae are induced for defined reasons, they can be tested and shown to be inducible as well, that shows at least one cause(there may be more).

When those caused are not present, you cannot induce the algae.
But you have to be able to produce a control tank and be willing to manipulate the CO2, light, nutrients etc to see if there is an effect from the treatment.

Then you need to get rid of the issue, then clean things up, then try it again.
Do this 4-6 times or so, then you have a good idea.
But you have that much control, you likely do not have algae issues to begin with.

I use to think the same things I read from folks also.
But I learned, as many do as they become wiser and more experienced in the hobby and with algae.

There's no secret about it really, you just take good care of things, do water changes, prune and keep it well stocked and clean, focus heavily on good CO2/cleaning the filters etc.

Mostly basic stuff.
I over look cleaning my filter every so often, but I I know my self enough to check there before blaming everything else.

While CO2 might be one cause, I'd say it's the lion share and drives most changes if used, and if you also have a lot of light, then you are prime for this, there are other causes.

Cleaning filters, reduced flows, lack of water changes, changes in the tap water KH season to season(It was always 5, till one day it went to 1!). Poor test kit methods, always something it seems.

You can also use the plants to check, good Riccia bubble production was one way I used to make sure I had enough CO2 when I first got MH's in the late 1980's. Worked quite well. That's when I started adding 30ppm of CO2.
15 ppm was fine if you used a shop light etc or low light as most everyone did at the time.

Not today..........

Just keep after the tank, focus a lot of CO2, making sure you have more than enough during the light peroid, clean the filter, add zeolite etc, do water changes, add Excel and then add then ferts and do water changes there after.

Rhizo does go away pretty easily with Excel and Blackouts. Water changes etc ought to clear things up well after 2-3 weeks time.

I do not think you will have trouble much with it hereafter.
Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2008, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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do you think the algae was helped by the fact that I use a HOB instead of a canister filter? I clean the intake every 3 days of debris, and check the cartridges but I will switch to canister around march unless if I find a good one cheap


using 4x2L co2....enough? or not enough? I have the ability to switch to 3-4 4L jugs if I need to - or larger
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2008, 10:48 PM
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I've had my run in with this algae recently as well. It doesn't seem to vacuum easily and attaches to my plants and substrates pretty well. I may need a stronger vacuum/suction I guess.

I think high light is definitely a problem. I have a similar setup but I use pressurized CO2 with a drop checker that goes from dark green to yellow/green by the end of the light period, which is about 8 hrs. Riccia and all plants pearl like crazy. I dose modified EI (modify dosing depending on need).

I will try the suggestions made here by Tom. The reason why I got the high light to begin with was to ensure that my HC grows low to the substrate. Would it still grow low with only 3WPG?

I guess time will tell.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
Do 2-3x a week water change, 50% etc, clean off all you can each time, turn lights off for 3 days, disconnect CO2 during this time, add Excel at full lablled rate after each water change.

You may do a daily water change+ Excel+ blackout for 3 days to really beat it back good.

However, you need to really work on CO2...........

DIY CO2+ high nuke light?
Excellent way to culture Rhizo........

You cannot induce it other ways, at least I never have after 15 years.

Regards,
Tom Barr
Hi Tom,

Why would a pressurized CO2 system help solve this Algae problem than a DIY CO2 system?

Thanks.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by moogoo View Post
I've had my run in with this algae recently as well. It doesn't seem to vacuum easily and attaches to my plants and substrates pretty well. I may need a stronger vacuum/suction I guess.

I think high light is definitely a problem. I have a similar setup but I use pressurized CO2 with a drop checker that goes from dark green to yellow/green by the end of the light period, which is about 8 hrs. Riccia and all plants pearl like crazy. I dose modified EI (modify dosing depending on need).

I will try the suggestions made here by Tom. The reason why I got the high light to begin with was to ensure that my HC grows low to the substrate. Would it still grow low with only 3WPG?

I guess time will tell.
HC is low light plant.
1.5W/gal using T5's at 36" away from the plant.............

Does very nicely at that range

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reefkeeper View Post
Hi Tom,

Why would a pressurized CO2 system help solve this Algae problem than a DIY CO2 system?

Thanks.
Consistency for one, stability, adjustability.......why spend $$$$$$ on light then go cheap on CO2?

Known any aquarist to ever kill their fish with too much light?
Still have not met any confirmed cases for kills with ferts.......

CO2?

Almost weekly someone gases and kills their fish.
Go 1st class on CO2, it is money well spent.

Low but good quality light, and good CO2........then nutrients etc are far easier.

This is how most of the ADa line is set up(measure the light on nice examples)
and is also exactly what Ole, Claus and Troels also have long suggested as well George Booth way back 15 years ago etc..........

It's the hobbyist that do not listen.

"More light is better" is the most deterimental attitude in the planted hobby.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 12:34 PM
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Increase CO2 levels and check nutrient dosing. Give the tank a good cleaning. Overdosing excel should also clear it. Amano shrimp will eat it.


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