Trying to get rid of this dust algae. Parameters inside - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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Trying to get rid of this dust algae. Parameters inside

So, I've been fighting this [dust algae](https://imgur.com/a/ghn3G5U) for some time now, and can't seem to get rid of it. Though, the tank is a hair less than two months old, so it may still be cycling, I have already got over some big hurdles (green algae soup, hair algae, and bacterial bloom). Now, it is just this dust algae I can't seem to shake.

Size: 55 gallons, 18” deep

Filter: Marineland penguin biowheel 350

Substrate: flourite

Temperature: 74įF

pH: 6-7*

Nitrite: 0ppm

Ammonia: 0ppm

† Nitrate: >0ppm

† Phosphate: >0ppm

Lighting: Fluval Planted 3.0 + 2X T5s 6500K

Lighting time: 12pm - 6pm

CO2: injection

CO2 time: 11AM - 5PM

GH and KH: normal? *

Ferts: Osmo+ root tabs (about a month old), no new ones; iron, nitrate and phosphate target ferts, several times a week

Livestock: mystery snails

Plants: swords, pearl weed, anacharis, AR, baby tears, rotala, mermaid weed, canbomba (can never remember him off the top of my head) , ferns

‡ Last water change: 2 to 3 weeks ago.

*: I have pH and hardness test strips I can quickly test if those parameters are critical in diagnosing algae. I only have 3 strips left, so I'll use then if necessary

†: the plants seem to eat up those macros as fast as I out them in. Though, it does seem that some days, the Nitrate will give around 20ppm, and then drop the next day

‡: I've held off on water changes, because I've been reading some people's arguments stating that water changes simply takes the nutrients for plants away from the water column and plants. I have no livestock, aside from some mystery snails that seem to be thriving
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 08:41 PM
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With good lighting and co2 your nitrate should always be in a least 10ppm range preferably 20ppm, phosphate should be at least 1ppm preferably 2ppm. This should be all the time, not a rollercoaster ride of 20ppm one day, 0ppm next day. Plants like stabile conditions, either nutrients flatlined throughout week or slightly rising during week. Then water changes are needed to reset nutrient levels and also remove excess dissolved organics from tank.

If your only dosing N, P and Fe your missing at least 10 other elements that plants need to outcompete algae. What brand of ferts are you using, how much do you dose and how often? You can give the plants all N, P, Fe you want but without Zn, B, K, Mg, Ca, Cu, etc etc, in the proper ratios plant growth will stall and algae will have upper hand.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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With good lighting and co2 your nitrate should always be in a least 10ppm range preferably 20ppm, phosphate should be at least 1ppm preferably 2ppm. This should be all the time, not a rollercoaster ride of 20ppm one day, 0ppm next day. Plants like stabile conditions, either nutrients flatlined throughout week or slightly rising during week. Then water changes are needed to reset nutrient levels and also remove excess dissolved organics from tank.

If your only dosing N, P and Fe your missing at least 10 other elements that plants need to outcompete algae. What brand of ferts are you using, how much do you dose and how often? You can give the plants all N, P, Fe you want but without Zn, B, K, Mg, Ca, Cu, etc etc, in the proper ratios plant growth will stall and algae will have upper hand.
I have osmocote+ roots tabs, but in guessing because they're root tabs, it won't do much for the water column.

But for N, Fe ansld P, I use seachem's Flourish line, as well as their comprehensive fert. I'll use API's Leaf Zone in my regimen too.

However, that's about three times a week, overdosing (about a capful each)
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 10:52 PM
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I've held off on water changes, because I've been reading some people's arguments stating that water changes simply takes the nutrients for plants away from the water column and plants. I have no livestock, aside from some mystery snails that seem to be thriving
That's got to be some of the worse advise I've ever heard for a hi-tech tank. I idea is you dose enough so nothing runs out and you do water changes to actually remove excess. The other thing water changes do, which might even be more important is they remove organics. Excess organics and good light is the cause of pretty much all algae issues. Not surprised you have issues.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Slyrunner View Post
I've held off on water changes, because I've been reading some people's arguments stating that water changes simply takes the nutrients for plants away from the water column and plants. I have no livestock, aside from some mystery snails that seem to be thriving
That's got to be some of the worse advise I've ever heard for a hi-tech tank. I idea is you dose enough so nothing runs out and you do water changes to actually remove excess. The other thing water changes do, which might even be more important is they remove organics. Excess organics and good light is the cause of pretty much all algae issues. Not surprised you have issues.
Lol duly noted! Water changing tonight!
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Slyrunner View Post
I have osmocote+ roots tabs, but in guessing because they're root tabs, it won't do much for the water column.

But for N, Fe ansld P, I use seachem's Flourish line, as well as their comprehensive fert. I'll use API's Leaf Zone in my regimen too.

However, that's about three times a week, overdosing (about a capful each)
API root zone is Fe and K, donít need to be using both it and Seachem iron at same time. Elevated iron levels can block uptake of phosphate, your phosphate levels are low already, you donít need elevated levels of iron interfering with its uptake as well. Pick one or the other, Seachem iron or API and dose that on days in between your normal Seachem dosing of N, P and Fluorish Comp. Fluorish Comp already has iron, you donít need to be doubling up on iron dosing. Iíd use API because it will keep K up as well.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyrunner View Post
I have osmocote+ roots tabs, but in guessing because they're root tabs, it won't do much for the water column.

But for N, Fe ansld P, I use seachem's Flourish line, as well as their comprehensive fert. I'll use API's Leaf Zone in my regimen too.

However, that's about three times a week, overdosing (about a capful each)
API root zone is Fe and K, don’t need to be using both it and Seachem iron at same time. Elevated iron levels can block uptake of phosphate, your phosphate levels are low already, you don’t need elevated levels of iron interfering with its uptake as well. Pick one or the other, Seachem iron or API and dose that on days in between your normal Seachem dosing of N, P and Fluorish Comp. Fluorish Comp already has iron, you don’t need to be doubling up on iron dosing. I’d use API because it will keep K up as well.
Hm, even if I have a lot of red plants?.I figured a healthy dosage of Fe would be good for em.

Now would the Flourish Comp be good for all of the other nutrients? Or do you recommend a brand that's more cost effective, better quality, more potent, etc etc
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 12:37 AM
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Well you can buy dry salt kits and roll your own. Will save you a bunch of cash in long run.

Fluorish dosing for 53gal of actual tank water.

To reach your target of 0.2ppm Fe you will need to add 12.5 milliliter (equivalent to 2 tsp + 1/2 tsp + 1/32 tsp ) Flourish Comprehensive to your 53gal aquarium to yield:
Element ppm/degree
N 0.0438
NO3 0.1925
P2O5 0.0063
P 0.0028
PO4 0.0081
K2O 0.2313
K 0.1919
Ca 0.0875
Mg 0.0688
S 0.1733
B 0.0056
Cl 0.7188
Co 0.0003
Cu 0.0001
Fe 0.2
Mn 0.0074
Mo 0.0006
Na 0.0813
Zn 0.0004
Dose these levels 2-4 times a week for EI. Classic EI depends on good CO2, good circulation, and regular water changes. Light past moderation is not so important.

You can figure needed amounts/results of most major fert liquids here....

https://rotalabutterfly.com/nutrient-calculator.php

Do your Seachem N and P dosing there as EI style and compare to what your actually currently dosing.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 03:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKS View Post
Well you can buy dry salt kits and roll your own. Will save you a bunch of cash in long run.

Fluorish dosing for 53gal of actual tank water.

To reach your target of 0.2ppm Fe you will need to add 12.5 milliliter (equivalent to 2 tsp + 1/2 tsp + 1/32 tsp ) Flourish Comprehensive to your 53gal aquarium to yield:
Element ppm/degree
N 0.0438
NO3 0.1925
P2O5 0.0063
P 0.0028
PO4 0.0081
K2O 0.2313
K 0.1919
Ca 0.0875
Mg 0.0688
S 0.1733
B 0.0056
Cl 0.7188
Co 0.0003
Cu 0.0001
Fe 0.2
Mn 0.0074
Mo 0.0006
Na 0.0813
Zn 0.0004
Dose these levels 2-4 times a week for EI. Classic EI depends on good CO2, good circulation, and regular water changes. Light past moderation is not so important.

You can figure needed amounts/results of most major fert liquids here....

https://rotalabutterfly.com/nutrient-calculator.php

Do your Seachem N and P dosing there as EI style and compare to what your actually currently dosing.
Damn dude, thank you! I now have a more controlled and exact feeding schedule to go by, now. Had no idea the tool existed.

Just got done doing a 90% w.c. So now I'm going do things right. As far as w.c. percentage goes, what are we talking here? 90% every other week? Or, like, 25%-50%?

Thanks again°

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKS View Post
Well you can buy dry salt kits and roll your own. Will save you a bunch of cash in long run.
So, these dry salt kits. Are you talking about something similar to making osmocote+ capsules as root tabs?

Last edited by Darkblade48; 06-17-2020 at 05:51 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 06:57 AM
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Water change if your following EI or PPS-Pro dosing routines should be 50% per week, sometimes you can get by with 40% or a bit less if your dosing on low end of spectrum and have low organic waste buildup from feeding/livestock.

If you’ve got easy undemanding plants such as lots of rotala species, crypt, Anubias, java fern or mosses you can very much go to 60-75% of standard dosing rate and also change less water. There are all kinds of shades of grey in tank dosing and maintenance/cleaning routines you can fall into, nothing is chiseled in stone. It’s all lather/rinse/repeat.....dose, dose in proper ratios, clean/change water, repeat. The big key is stabilizing levels/routines, watching out for nutrients going into complete depletion or excess accumulations/toxicity and recognizing those deficiency/toxicity symptoms that may pop up and what causes them and what to do to fix them.

Dry salts use someone like NilocG (maker of Thrive all in one fert) or Green Leaf Aquarium.

EI package
https://www.nilocg.com/shop/ei-based-npk-csmb/

Or PPS-Pro style dosing
https://www.nilocg.com/shop/pps-pro/

https://greenleafaquariums.com/categ...-packages.html

I would order PPS package simply because it comes with Mg Sulfate (pure Epsom Salts) so you can control your Ca/Mg ratios. Once you have all those salts you can mix to either EI or PPS spec or do a totally custom mix based on your source waters readings. If your source water has good calcium but very little Mg you can fix that ratio by dosing a little extra Epsom salts. Nitrate and phosphate climbing to high you simply back off on those salts. It’s very much like Seachem 4 bottle system, NPK (add Mg if needed) and micro except it will cost you about 1/4 of what Seachem line costs. You end up with 2 bottles instead of 4 in Seachem system, one for macro, one for micro, but you still retain complete control of NPK in relation to micro dosing by simply altering your dosing amounts or changing ratios when you mix them up. Simply start with jug of distilled or RO water and mix them up. No chlorinated water or dechlor compounds like Seachem Prime allowed.

NilocG even has a PPS Pro package pre measured, no math required, just add bag to bottle and top off with 500ml of water. Of course going that route you lose control of NPK ratios but for most it still hits their dosing needs.

https://www.nilocg.com/shop/diy-pps-...id-fertilizer/
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-20-2020, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaveKS View Post
Water change if your following EI or PPS-Pro dosing routines should be 50% per week, sometimes you can get by with 40% or a bit less if your dosing on low end of spectrum and have low organic waste buildup from feeding/livestock.

If you’ve got easy undemanding plants such as lots of rotala species, crypt, Anubias, java fern or mosses you can very much go to 60-75% of standard dosing rate and also change less water. There are all kinds of shades of grey in tank dosing and maintenance/cleaning routines you can fall into, nothing is chiseled in stone. It’s all lather/rinse/repeat.....dose, dose in proper ratios, clean/change water, repeat. The big key is stabilizing levels/routines, watching out for nutrients going into complete depletion or excess accumulations/toxicity and recognizing those deficiency/toxicity symptoms that may pop up and what causes them and what to do to fix them.

Dry salts use someone like NilocG (maker of Thrive all in one fert) or Green Leaf Aquarium.

EI package
https://www.nilocg.com/shop/ei-based-npk-csmb/

Or PPS-Pro style dosing
https://www.nilocg.com/shop/pps-pro/

https://greenleafaquariums.com/categ...-packages.html

I would order PPS package simply because it comes with Mg Sulfate (pure Epsom Salts) so you can control your Ca/Mg ratios. Once you have all those salts you can mix to either EI or PPS spec or do a totally custom mix based on your source waters readings. If your source water has good calcium but very little Mg you can fix that ratio by dosing a little extra Epsom salts. Nitrate and phosphate climbing to high you simply back off on those salts. It’s very much like Seachem 4 bottle system, NPK (add Mg if needed) and micro except it will cost you about 1/4 of what Seachem line costs. You end up with 2 bottles instead of 4 in Seachem system, one for macro, one for micro, but you still retain complete control of NPK in relation to micro dosing by simply altering your dosing amounts or changing ratios when you mix them up. Simply start with jug of distilled or RO water and mix them up. No chlorinated water or dechlor compounds like Seachem Prime allowed.

NilocG even has a PPS Pro package pre measured, no math required, just add bag to bottle and top off with 500ml of water. Of course going that route you lose control of NPK ratios but for most it still hits their dosing needs.

https://www.nilocg.com/shop/diy-pps-...id-fertilizer/
So I started a regimen, starting with 23mL of Nitrate two times a week. And a few days after starting this, I started getting some BBA. Can nitrate spikes cause BBAs to come about? Should I tune it down to 15mL? Because today, I'm at roughly 30ppm after dosing the tank on Tuesday and friday with 23mL of Nitrate.

20-40ppm nitrate https://imgur.com/gallery/3vd9c79
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