Getting control on this gsa and potassium phosphate - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 02:57 AM Thread Starter
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Hmm is low.med then I shouldnt have to space the light up more maybe.

Still doing the battle, I guess nothing is super crazy right now, less yellow leaves to kill at the end of the week, did maybe 5 trimming today, last week 10, before then probably 20 so maybe something is happening. Gsa doesnt seem to be clinging to the ferns now, maybe because the leaves are not months old, anubia still have gsa on them as I have no dipped them for a few weeks now.

If phosphate really isnt helping then Ill just stop dosing, I was trying to keep it at the 3.0mark. Naturally the tank starts out at .25 and end of the week sits at .5ppm. with no dose, I am sure with the ferts it might sit little higher.

I do no less than 50% every week and scrape the glass. The glass scraping is how I judge the gsa, every week it isnt getting longer so its just a time thing now and other tweakings.

More plants is fine with me, this testing with goldfish I am afraid plants will get eaten and then there is that c02 thing that I have 0 interest in.

Until next time!.............

61132415_673969426376411_1508655211734892544_n by Corey S, on Flickr
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ITHURTZ View Post
Hmm is low.med then I shouldnt have to space the light up more maybe.



Still doing the battle, I guess nothing is super crazy right now, less yellow leaves to kill at the end of the week, did maybe 5 trimming today, last week 10, before then probably 20 so maybe something is happening. Gsa doesnt seem to be clinging to the ferns now, maybe because the leaves are not months old, anubia still have gsa on them as I have no dipped them for a few weeks now.



If phosphate really isnt helping then Ill just stop dosing, I was trying to keep it at the 3.0mark. Naturally the tank starts out at .25 and end of the week sits at .5ppm. with no dose, I am sure with the ferts it might sit little higher.



I do no less than 50% every week and scrape the glass. The glass scraping is how I judge the gsa, every week it isnt getting longer so its just a time thing now and other tweakings.



More plants is fine with me, this testing with goldfish I am afraid plants will get eaten and then there is that c02 thing that I have 0 interest in.



Until next time!.............



61132415_673969426376411_1508655211734892544_n by Corey S, on Flickr


You don’t need co2 at all in order to have good looking plants. Also there are specific plants used for gold fish that tend to not get eaten by them. The more plant mass the better.


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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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Question, is the brown spots on the leaves then going yellow a possible co2 deficiency? according to research tom barr would say yes.
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 01:55 AM
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The rest of the java fern pictured looks fairly healthy. Pick off the dead stuff and wait. If there is a deficiency, it will show up. I have nothing against Tom, but you don't CO2 if you don't want to deal with it. CO2 serves 2 purposes; grow plants big and fast. There are finicky stem plants that need it, but you don't have that kind of tank.

Most of my 40 breeder has java ferns and anubias. I lean dose the water column once a week ( 2 squirts) with Tropica; orange bottle as it contains no nitrates and have recently been adding root tabs for my root feeders; crypts, swords and vals. The root tabs consist of soil, clay and a sprinkle of dry ferts which is where part of my nitrates come from. After years of not being able to grow vals, they're growing. I don't use CO2 either.

Getting back to the java fern thing, sometimes leaves are old and die. When java ferns start sprouting plantlets, that is a sign that they need food. The babies are the plants' way of saying "I'm dying, here's some babies". Since you have gold fish, you don't need a lot of ferts and I wouldn't use anything with nitrates in it. Low dose the water column once a week to avoid problems of any kind of deficiency and they should be fine.
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 02:34 AM Thread Starter
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Hmm well that explains why the first 4 months I had the java fern I was getting babies out the wazoo and now not really anything. The leaves left on the java fern are not the original anymore and its just frustrating me that some leaves are still dying. I have this vision, and its not even close.
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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 03:51 AM
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Getting control on this gsa and potassium phosphate

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITHURTZ View Post
Hmm well that explains why the first 4 months I had the java fern I was getting babies out the wazoo and now not really anything. The leaves left on the java fern are not the original anymore and its just frustrating me that some leaves are still dying. I have this vision, and its not even close.


Maybe try adding some K2SO4 and some micros to your dosing regimen. Once a week dosing with your plants should be perfectly fine, and given your bioload, I would say nitrate isn’t necessary. But some extra potassium, sulfur, and micros could help round it out for the plants.

The K2SO4 is $3 and CSM+B is $12 from NilocG. Alternatively if your pH is high, Burr on here sells the micros to “roll your own”, add some DTPA iron and you’re golden.

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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 08:52 AM
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Hmm well that explains why the first 4 months I had the java fern I was getting babies out the wazoo and now not really anything. The leaves left on the java fern are not the original anymore and its just frustrating me that some leaves are still dying. I have this vision, and its not even close.
I don't know what your vision is, but plants need time to adjust to your water parameters. It doesn't matter if a person has a low tech tank or a high tech tank, all plants shed old leaves and grow new ones.

Once your tank dialed in in terms of ferts and getting the green spot algae under control, your tank will be fine.
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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 02:42 PM
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I'll chime in here about the spots on the Java Fern. I am nowhere near an expert here, but maybe my experience can help you? I went through exactly the same battle as you. Then, I moved my Java Fern to a completely different tank with NO lighting (except for the sun that comes indirectly). Java fern was thriving. I have come to think it is super sensitive to too much light?

I notice you've got well water like me, if I'm not mistaken? My well water has a ton of minerals, and is typically very hard. I also have super high phosphates from the tap too, and I use special filter media to remove some of them. Because the tap water has so many nutrients already, I don't really dose the water column except for the occasional Excel or Flourish as needed.

The two changes that cleared up algae for me were reducing the lighting (I reduced intensity, not duration), and adding Fluval Clearmax to the filter have made the biggest difference. And time. I made those two changes and waited. Like, a month or two. New Java leaves are spotless, and much less algae (it's still there, but getting better).
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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CatsMeow View Post
I'll chime in here about the spots on the Java Fern. I am nowhere near an expert here, but maybe my experience can help you? I went through exactly the same battle as you. Then, I moved my Java Fern to a completely different tank with NO lighting (except for the sun that comes indirectly). Java fern was thriving. I have come to think it is super sensitive to too much light?

I notice you've got well water like me, if I'm not mistaken? My well water has a ton of minerals, and is typically very hard. I also have super high phosphates from the tap too, and I use special filter media to remove some of them. Because the tap water has so many nutrients already, I don't really dose the water column except for the occasional Excel or Flourish as needed.

The two changes that cleared up algae for me were reducing the lighting (I reduced intensity, not duration), and adding Fluval Clearmax to the filter have made the biggest difference. And time. I made those two changes and waited. Like, a month or two. New Java leaves are spotless, and much less algae (it's still there, but getting better).
Nice post. Its always good to see others experiences we can learn from. But I'd just like to point out that Java fern is absolutely not sensitive to light. Ive grown it near the surface under probably 250+ PAR (thats extremely high) It grows bigger and faster, that's all.

There can be too much light for a particular set up, of course. Low plant mass, non demanding plants, no co2 and ferts, throw a ton of light over those situations and there'll be problems.

But as far as plants go I dont know any that are light sensitive, certainly not java fern.


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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 04:14 PM
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There can be too much light for a particular set up, of course. Low plant mass, non demanding plants, no co2 and ferts, throw a ton of light over those situations and there'll be problems.
Interesting. So maybe the higher light is just causing something else to be the limiting factor? Back to the drawing board. I can grow a lot of plants, but Java Fern is my nemesis. I'm on a mission to figure it out, lol!
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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 04:20 PM
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Interesting. So maybe the higher light is just causing something else to be the limiting factor? Back to the drawing board. I can grow a lot of plants, but Java Fern is my nemesis. I'm on a mission to figure it out, lol!
Yes, high light isn't the issue, but lack of co2 and ferts could be with the increased intensity. Many people think that, you are not alone. The low-light plants like Anubias, ferns, buces, crypts will all grow faster, fuller under higher light. They are only "low-light" in that they can live in those conditions.
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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 02:32 AM Thread Starter
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I notice you've got well water like me, if I'm not mistaken? .
Yup, water is nice and hard, but phosphates are pretty much nil. Tank after a water change would be at .25ppm.

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I don't know what your vision is,
green green! I really thought low tech was drop in and go, this is a fun learning experience though. Just hope it works out in time.

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Maybe try adding some K2SO4 and some micros to your dosing regimen. Once a week dosing with your plants should be perfectly fine, and given your bioload, I would say nitrate isn’t necessary. But some extra potassium, sulfur, and micros could help round it out for the plants.

The K2SO4 is $3 and CSM+B is $12 from NilocG. Alternatively if your pH is high, Burr on here sells the micros to “roll your own”, add some DTPA iron and you’re golden.

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I do have potassium phosphate and flourish comp I have been dosing already.



Ill have to try some amazon swords in the very near future, 29gal doesnt have alot of room so I would have to draw things out and plan it out. The 500gal in the outdoor shed would look sweet planted but not to maintain.
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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 09:37 AM
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green green! I really thought low tech was drop in and go, this is a fun learning experience though. Just hope it works out in time.
That isn't a unreasonable vision to have. Patience is must though even with low tech tanks as everybody has their own headaches and things to deal with.

I too have well water, but it kills things including fish and beneficial bacteria as I found out a couple of years ago. It took me a few months to figure out why my tank that was well established was constantly having problems with diatom algae and even though I was doing all the right things in terms of tank maintenance. While that was going on, I was losing one fish per week. After a week of netting out a dead fish everyday, I made the decision to start using RO water that I remineralize.

Once I got things back under control, my tank has been relatively problem free. I keep my tank clean and do my best to be consistent. When I do introduce something new like the root tabs, I do so slowly. Instead of burying the whole pack, I added a couple. This is making my plants happy, so I don't need to add more until they start demanding more.

It will work out.
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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Isnt this to the T what the java fern is doing?

Necrotic spots develop on older leaves

a. Margins of older leaves become chlorotic and then burn, or small chlorotic spots progressing to necrosis appear scattered on old leaf blades. Calcium excess impedes uptake of potassium cations.... potassium deficiency

Potassium deficiency symptoms first appear on the recently matured leaves of the plant (not on the young, immature leaves at the growing point). In some plants, the first sign of potassium deficiency is a white specking or freckling of the leaf blades. With time, the symptoms become more pronounced on the older leaves , and they become mottled or yellowish between the veins and scorched at the margins. These progress inward until the entire leaf blade is scorched. If sodium cations are present and taken up in place of K+1, leaf flecking (necrotic spots scattered on leaf surface) and reduced growth occur. Seed or fruit is shriveled. Potassium is phloem retranslocated from old leaves to new growth."


On these api test strips I have just for quick glances on the big tank GH is maxed at 180 and KH maxed at 240

61235076_842711882769056_2761113807492218880_n by Corey S, on Flickr
61136498_1326954470786241_6226004241756979200_n by Corey S, on Flickr
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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 02:40 AM Thread Starter
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Couple weeks ago I tried to order potassium on ebay, got scammed by some user from mexico with a 99.7% rating, go figure. Ebay deleted them and refunded me, ordered from another user and got it in 4 days. SOO I have flourish potassium now as I am convinced those spottings are related to that. (internet professor I was )

Bottle says to dose twice a week so that I shall. I did some rearranging, put the trident java fern on the wood and put the 3 anubia on some stone. The hob was starting to give fits on priming, then shut off randomly once so I replaced it with a aqueon 75led pro, and since I was there picked up a Compacta amazon sword just to see.

Here goes this test, after this, I have nothing left to give.

Fresh water change 60% and I skipped last week just to testing. Fry "tank" top left, 5 left!
62363185_1048908965308718_7347603932853567488_n by Corey S, on Flickr

Trident, anubias, and compacta amazon bottom right
62394609_2439863789397676_4263551143533084672_n by Corey S, on Flickr

The java fern the baby leaves are at the point of no return, they always would get to this point and then start to freckle. Hopefully they wont this time, they are looking good. Nice MTS fest I have going on too.
62431672_2092613504183268_2419864834620260352_n by Corey S, on Flickr

GSA still alive, nothing crazy still.
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