Ideas for new 3.4 gallon - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #31 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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New scape

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Originally Posted by Thelongsnail View Post
Very sad to read through the earlier posts.

Larger tanks give more leeway for things going wrong. Imho both your tanks are overstocked and Id replace them with larger ones. Either way, I hope things work out for you.
Thanks. I could definitely upgrade to something bigger later on. I'm going to try and balance it out by using more plants. I know the water chemistry is harder to balance on smaller tanks, but it's still just 2 - 2.5 inches of fish to 3.4 gallons.
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post #32 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 03:03 AM
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Kind of hard to tell but I see no water surface movement at all, not a good thing. Helps with gas exchange including purging ammonia and adding oxygen. Id cut spray bar about 3 holes over from left end, reconnect with piece of rubber hose as a coupling and point those 3 jets more up towards surface of water so that you get the brisk rippling surface movement you need.

Id also get some more floaters, at least temporarily till things settle in. Cover about 1/3 surface with them.
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post #33 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by freshwaterguy4u View Post
Puffers and otto are in the betta tank and the betta is in the snail breeding tank. Ammonia has gone down a bit and I've removed two more rotting snails that the puffers had killed. I'm going to just crush the snails from now on instead having them with the puffers to hunt.
I'm somewhat new to fishkeeping (it has been about a year since I started my new job which included fish care), so I'm still learning (a LOT) from reading everything I can online & in books, along with copious amounts of youtube videos -- so please don't feel guilty about doing research on what I (or anyone) suggests!

When it comes to how many fish will fit in a small tank, please remember that you are looking at two things -- one is how much waste the fish will produce, and the other is how much space a fish will need to swim in and be happy. From what I can suss out, the fish-per-inch thing is mostly to do with how much waste a fish will create. The question of the fish's happiness (or level of stress?) is dependent on the size (and dimensions) of the tank (longer is pretty much ALWAYS better than taller), the set-up of the tank (plants/rocks/hiding spots/broken up lines of sight, etc.), the number & species of tankmates, etc.

So while a well filtered tank (especially one with plants) can definitely handle the bio-load of just a couple small fish, the fish's happiness (i.e. their stress or lack thereof, which will affect their behavior -- like hiding all the time, etc. along with their lifespan) is the concerning part. Obviously this varies wildly by species. From what I've read pea puffers are okay alone in a small tank, as would a single betta. Both of these fish are considered rather aggressive though, so you may be signing up any tank mates to a life of constant harrassment. From what I've read, ottos do best with at least a few pals of the same species (for true "in nature" behavior, 10-15 is suggested -- in a MUCH larger tank of course). Other recommendations for this shy fish are plenty of hiding spots, and easy access to algae, which they prefer to eat off plants. Other than ONE website that claimed 1 otto in a 5 gallon was fine, I've never seen smaller than a 10 gallon recommendation for an otto (up to 4 ottos, 1-2 websites claimed), and most suggest 20 gallon tanks.

As with all things, look at the behavior of your particular fish, because maybe it will work out fine, but you may want to transition some of your species to other tanks. Personally, I'm a fan of using nano tanks primarily as shrimp tanks (bonus: higher numbers are perfectly fine in a shrimp tank -- and they're super entertaining!), though you'll need a well aged tank in order to be successful (I see 6+ months as a minimum recommendation, though I had an okay amount of success starting my shrimp earlier).

In any case, your tank is lovely, and I'm enjoying watching it's evolution -- good luck!
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post #34 of 63 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 07:01 PM
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+1 on additional floating plants while you're sorting out your parameters, although you'll still need to keep up with very regular water changes.

The inch per gallon rule is very outdated - if you compare 10 inches worth of neon tetras and a 10 inch oscar, there's a huge waste disparity despite there being the same number of fish inches. A good aid in working out stocking is aqadvisor as it calculates the waste produced by fish of certain species, and also takes into account behaviour etc. It's not perfect, but it's a good baseline.

Puffers are messy fish, so although they're small, they still produce large amounts of waste for their size.

Did you order test kits and have they arrived? If so, what are your parameters?

What size tanks are all your fish in now and what's the exact stocking of each? How are the fish doing?

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post #35 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinnamonamon View Post
I'm somewhat new to fishkeeping (it has been about a year since I started my new job which included fish care), so I'm still learning (a LOT) from reading everything I can online & in books, along with copious amounts of youtube videos -- so please don't feel guilty about doing research on what I (or anyone) suggests!

When it comes to how many fish will fit in a small tank, please remember that you are looking at two things -- one is how much waste the fish will produce, and the other is how much space a fish will need to swim in and be happy. From what I can suss out, the fish-per-inch thing is mostly to do with how much waste a fish will create. The question of the fish's happiness (or level of stress?) is dependent on the size (and dimensions) of the tank (longer is pretty much ALWAYS better than taller), the set-up of the tank (plants/rocks/hiding spots/broken up lines of sight, etc.), the number & species of tankmates, etc.

So while a well filtered tank (especially one with plants) can definitely handle the bio-load of just a couple small fish, the fish's happiness (i.e. their stress or lack thereof, which will affect their behavior -- like hiding all the time, etc. along with their lifespan) is the concerning part. Obviously this varies wildly by species. From what I've read pea puffers are okay alone in a small tank, as would a single betta. Both of these fish are considered rather aggressive though, so you may be signing up any tank mates to a life of constant harrassment. From what I've read, ottos do best with at least a few pals of the same species (for true "in nature" behavior, 10-15 is suggested -- in a MUCH larger tank of course). Other recommendations for this shy fish are plenty of hiding spots, and easy access to algae, which they prefer to eat off plants. Other than ONE website that claimed 1 otto in a 5 gallon was fine, I've never seen smaller than a 10 gallon recommendation for an otto (up to 4 ottos, 1-2 websites claimed), and most suggest 20 gallon tanks.

As with all things, look at the behavior of your particular fish, because maybe it will work out fine, but you may want to transition some of your species to other tanks. Personally, I'm a fan of using nano tanks primarily as shrimp tanks (bonus: higher numbers are perfectly fine in a shrimp tank -- and they're super entertaining!), though you'll need a well aged tank in order to be successful (I see 6+ months as a minimum recommendation, though I had an okay amount of success starting my shrimp earlier).

In any case, your tank is lovely, and I'm enjoying watching it's evolution -- good luck!
Thanks for the feedback man! The problem was I purchased this equipment based on info that 3.4 is the minimum tank size for the dwarf and the one inch per gallon rule.

At this point I will monitor the fishes behavior(glass surfing/hiding) and heavily plant the tank. I've got 10 gallon canister filter with some awesome biomedia so water quality should be good.
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post #36 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 06:54 PM
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Is the 10 gallon canister filter cycled? If not, water parameters won't be good unless you're using specialist media that neutralises toxins.

Fish behaviour is only indicative of water quality problems once they're so bad that they're causing stress. Please do get a water testing kit from a reputable brand.

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post #37 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelongsnail View Post
+1 on additional floating plants while you're sorting out your parameters, although you'll still need to keep up with very regular water changes.

The inch per gallon rule is very outdated - if you compare 10 inches worth of neon tetras and a 10 inch oscar, there's a huge waste disparity despite there being the same number of fish inches. A good aid in working out stocking is aqadvisor as it calculates the waste produced by fish of certain species, and also takes into account behaviour etc. It's not perfect, but it's a good baseline.

Puffers are messy fish, so although they're small, they still produce large amounts of waste for their size.

Did you order test kits and have they arrived? If so, what are your parameters?

What size tanks are all your fish in now and what's the exact stocking of each? How are the fish doing?
Two dwarf puffers and otto are in 1.5 gallon due to ammonia emergency. Nitrate and ammonia are 0 in that tank. Shrimp and snail tank readings are also zero for both.

In 3.4g nitrates are at 60-80ppm and ammonia .25ppm.
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post #38 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 12:01 AM
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post #39 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 05:31 PM
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I'm glad you have tests now. Are you testing for nitrite too?

If rehoming the fish is not an option, please be sure to do at least 50% water changes in both tanks every day. Ammonia and nitrite should always be 0 and even .25ppm would be enough for me to do a large water change. The same for your nitrate levels - earlier in this thred you said that you believe nitrates should be much lower than 20ppm. There's some leeway in this - some people aim for 20ppm for their plants, some say up to 40ppm is fine. I personally keep mine below 20ppm, almost always below 10ppm, and often 0-5ppm. The vast majority of people will say that 60-80ppm is much too high though.

It sounds to me that the 3.4g is at least partially cycled, but not the 1.5g.

Assuming that you have the betta in the 3.4g, the nitrates are still too high and the ammonia much too high, but she will probably survive in the short term. You should still do 50%+ water changes every day or she will suffer long term damage.

Dwarf puffers are more susceptible to water quality issues, and as previously stated, are messy fish. If you will not rehome them or put them in a larger tank immediately, then 70%+ daily water changes will be necessary. You will see an ammonia spike, followed by a nitrite spike as the tank cycles, and I would be very surprised if this does not result in losses. The smaller the tank, the higher the levels of toxins, as there is less water to dilute them. I will also be very surprised if you do not have issues of aggression between the puffers in a tank that size. All puffers are relatively intelligent fish that require space to explore and to build their own territories, dwarf puffers are not excluded form this. You are not providing these requirements.

If larger tanks are not an option, even a large bucket or plastic box will be better for the fish than such small uncycled tanks.

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post #40 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 12:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelongsnail View Post
I'm glad you have tests now. Are you testing for nitrite too?

If rehoming the fish is not an option, please be sure to do at least 50% water changes in both tanks every day. Ammonia and nitrite should always be 0 and even .25ppm would be enough for me to do a large water change. The same for your nitrate levels - earlier in this thred you said that you believe nitrates should be much lower than 20ppm. There's some leeway in this - some people aim for 20ppm for their plants, some say up to 40ppm is fine. I personally keep mine below 20ppm, almost always below 10ppm, and often 0-5ppm. The vast majority of people will say that 60-80ppm is much too high though.

It sounds to me that the 3.4g is at least partially cycled, but not the 1.5g.

Assuming that you have the betta in the 3.4g, the nitrates are still too high and the ammonia much too high, but she will probably survive in the short term. You should still do 50%+ water changes every day or she will suffer long term damage.

Dwarf puffers are more susceptible to water quality issues, and as previously stated, are messy fish. If you will not rehome them or put them in a larger tank immediately, then 70%+ daily water changes will be necessary. You will see an ammonia spike, followed by a nitrite spike as the tank cycles, and I would be very surprised if this does not result in losses. The smaller the tank, the higher the levels of toxins, as there is less water to dilute them. I will also be very surprised if you do not have issues of aggression between the puffers in a tank that size. All puffers are relatively intelligent fish that require space to explore and to build their own territories, dwarf puffers are not excluded form this. You are not providing these requirements.

If larger tanks are not an option, even a large bucket or plastic box will be better for the fish than such small uncycled tanks.
The two small tanks have cycled gravel and filled with java moss from someone elses cycled tank. I think that's why the water parameters are fine, but I'm hoping I can get the 3.4g cycled so I can move the fish to a bigger tank.

Aggression is an issue with the puffers in such a small tank, mostly when they are feeding. I can't really tell which one is the male yet, but the smaller one has more vibrant colouration. But sometimes it's colours are just as dull as the other one so I'm not sure. Once they get old enough, I'll rehome the female.

[IMG]
the tyger analysis line by line[/IMG]

I'm going to have to get some algae waffers because there are so many algae eaters in that tank.

Blue dream shrimp
Rams horn
Small pest snails

And 6 of these, I'm not sure of the type:
https://images.app.goo.gl/9bDga6FMBb9k446P9

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post #41 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 08:06 AM
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Be very careful with algae wafers as they will pollute a tank that small.

I wish you the best of luck.

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post #42 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 01:35 PM
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Just an FYI, it is recommended that with mystery snails you keep them 1 per 2.5 gallons for adults. With good filtration & feeding, I've put more than that in a tank (I let some eggs hatch out, so I was stuck with HUNDREDS), but 6 in a 3.4 gallon is going to be VERY crowded unless they are very little. Adults get to around 1-2 inches in shell diameter, easily within a year, under good conditions. They poop a fair amount, too...
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post #43 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freshwaterguy4u View Post
Not sure of the otto? the shrimp? or the nerites in my tank?
Those snails have plenty too eat..... no need for algeawafer

Giving back creates a virtuous cycle that makes everyone more successful (as long as they cycle!)
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post #44 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 05:35 AM Thread Starter
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Not sure of the otto? the shrimp? or the nerites in my tank?
Those snails have plenty too eat..... no need for algeawafer
It's fun to to feed them sometimes, they've already made the tank spotless. I split the algae wafers into small pieces.
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post #45 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 01:49 AM Thread Starter
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[IMG][/IMG]


Does this look alright? I'm thinking of covering the branch in creeping moss and gluing the Bucephalandra sp. midway up the branch. Also gluing anubias nana to the other stone.
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