Melting Stems/ Transparent leaves - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Melting Stems/ Transparent leaves

Hi, I have a 15.85 Gallon (60 litre) freshwater Planted tank. Plants and leaves are melting followed by transparent starting from tip ot he leaf and in between stem. some details are as follows

Tank measurement - (18X12X18) Inch LxBxH
KH - 7
GH - 6
Fert Regime:
Ada Brighty K: 3 ML 3 times in a week (9ML Total)
Flourish Nitrogen: 9.1 ML once in a week
Flourish Phosphorus: 15ML once a Weak
Flourish Comprehensive: 1 ML 4 times in a week (4 ML Total)
Aqua forest AF Iron Boost - 1.8ML once a week
MgSO4 - 2 gm once a week

Using INSTA Co2 can for CO2 Supplementation, filled the chamber every day
Lighting - 18Watt PL lamp and 17 watt DIY Led lighting 6500K for 8 Hrs/Day
30% Water change once a week with RO treated water
Please refer to attached snaps
Please suggest/advice how to treat the problem.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 10:04 PM
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Looks like a couple may have iron deficiency and some of the others appear to possibly be fairly far gone but potassium would be my first guess for them.

Just my two cents and I'm not an expert just a half educated idiot. But the thin spots and pinholes say potassium to me on several of the plants. Iron may be playing a part in the pale plants but there's a lot of trimming to be done and that could possibly be more of a solution than iron.

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks sfsamn. I will try and let you know.

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 02:28 PM
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Some of your symptoms could also be partly a nitrogen deficiency (transparency and white). You are adding about 12ppm of NO3 /week and about 15ppm of K. It would be good if you could test your NO3 levels (I prefer the Salifert NO3 kit) because we don't know how much your organics may also be contributing.

These levels may be ok in a low-tech low-light tank, but may not be high enough in a high-tech tank. I can't tell how much light you have, but it seems like it might be pretty strong. PAR levels give the best read on light intensity. However, since you don't seem to have any complaint on algae, you may have a good balance of light and CO2. Try to get some test results on NO3 and PO4 (test kits are inexpensive). That will give us a good read on nutrient consumption and indicate if you need to add more nutrients across the board.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanna View Post
Some of your symptoms could also be partly a nitrogen deficiency (transparency and white). You are adding about 12ppm of NO3 /week and about 15ppm of K. It would be good if you could test your NO3 levels (I prefer the Salifert NO3 kit) because we don't know how much your organics may also be contributing.

These levels may be ok in a low-tech low-light tank, but may not be high enough in a high-tech tank. I can't tell how much light you have, but it seems like it might be pretty strong. PAR levels give the best read on light intensity. However, since you don't seem to have any complaint on algae, you may have a good balance of light and CO2. Try to get some test results on NO3 and PO4 (test kits are inexpensive). That will give us a good read on nutrient consumption and indicate if you need to add more nutrients across the board.
Thanks a lot for your advice. I will test and inform you. Inhave a question. How much PAR will be fine with low-mid tech tank? Plants do not pearl. Started pearling when increased the light by 6 watt led lighting. What does this mean? How to measure PAR at substrate?
Thank you ince again.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by niladribasu View Post
Thanks a lot for your advice. I will test and inform you. Inhave a question. How much PAR will be fine with low-mid tech tank? Plants do not pearl. Started pearling when increased the light by 6 watt led lighting. What does this mean? How to measure PAR at substrate?
Thank you ince again.
Regarding lighting:

PAR meters are the best way to measure PAR (you should also consider PUR values), but others have done this for many of the light fixtures that we buy. You can find them by searching for your light on this forum ...if your light has been tested. Other members may be drawn to this thread that may be able to give you an estimate of your particular light. Many of us use a Seneye light meter, which is among the least inexpensive, but these are well over $100. If you have a local club, they often have them available to loan you.

The general guide (plenty of slop in it) that I use to gauge light levels is:

Low CO2 (<20ppm)
Low Light: 15-30 PAR
Med Light: 30-50 PAR
High Light: >50 PAR

High CO2 (30-40ppm)
Low Light: 30-50 PAR
Med Light: 50-80 PAR
High Light: >80PAR

Regarding pearling:

Many theories and you can find them all over TPT. It just happens that there is a current discussion occurring on this subject at @Greggz journal: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...018-a-118.html on all of page 118 (so far).
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanna View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by niladribasu View Post
Thanks a lot for your advice. I will test and inform you. Inhave a question. How much PAR will be fine with low-mid tech tank? Plants do not pearl. Started pearling when increased the light by 6 watt led lighting. What does this mean? How to measure PAR at substrate?
Thank you ince again.
Regarding lighting:

PAR meters are the best way to measure PAR (you should also consider PUR values), but others have done this for many of the light fixtures that we buy. You can find them by searching for your light on this forum ...if your light has been tested. Other members may be drawn to this thread that may be able to give you an estimate of your particular light. Many of us use a Seneye light meter, which is among the least inexpensive, but these are well over $100. If you have a local club, they often have them available to loan you.

The general guide (plenty of slop in it) that I use to gauge light levels is:

Low CO2 (<20ppm)
Low Light: 15-30 PAR
Med Light: 30-50 PAR
High Light: >50 PAR

High CO2 (30-40ppm)
Low Light: 30-50 PAR
Med Light: 50-80 PAR
High Light: >80PAR

Regarding pearling:

Many theories and you can find them all over TPT. It just happens that there is a current discussion occurring on this subject at @Greggz journal: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...018-a-118.html on all of page 118 (so far).
I have used rotala butterfly website calculator to get an idea of PAR value of my lighting. They estimated it 32 PAR. I have BBA in gravel and I have started excel treatment from 30.10.2018. Thanks for your advice.
What is advice towards nutrient dosing in PPM and light PAR? May please feel free to share your opinion as it will help me a lot.

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niladribasu View Post
I have used rotala butterfly website calculator to get an idea of PAR value of my lighting. They estimated it 32 PAR. I have BBA in gravel and I have started excel treatment from 30.10.2018. Thanks for your advice.
What is advice towards nutrient dosing in PPM and light PAR? May please feel free to share your opinion as it will help me a lot.
I’m not sure how useful the RotalaButterfly lighting calculator is, but we’ll assume that you have a good balance of light and CO2. I base this, again, on your not reporting significant algae issues and the pictures don’t show significant algae. The BBA you report could very well be simply due to unhealthy plants as opposed to too much light. That leaves us to focus upon ferts and maintenance.

Some basics, first:
- I like to see circulation that has plant leaves slightly moving from top to bottom. This ensures maximum contact with nutrients.
- In addition to water changes (I do~50% weekly), I clean my filter weekly. You’d be surprised how quickly detritus/ organic gunk accumulates in it.
- If you use the CO2 calculator on RotalaButterfly, you can get an idea of where your CO2 is. Please report it. You may not need Excel if it is high enough.

Ferts:
What % RO are you mixing with your tap? What is your substrate? We will need test results on NO3 and PO4. If you don’t have test kits, I recommend the Salifert NO3 kit and the API PO4 kit. Both available on Amazon.

Last edited by Deanna; 10-31-2018 at 02:31 PM. Reason: add
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 03:54 PM
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Hi @niladribasu,

Welcome to TPT!

+1 for @Deanna's comment; besides the dKH and dGH do you know any of the other water parameters of your tank?

pH =

nitrates (ppm of NO3) =

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi @niladribasu,

Welcome to TPT!

+1 for @Deanna's comment; besides the dKH and dGH do you know any of the other water parameters of your tank?

pH =

nitrates (ppm of NO3) =
pH=6.5
Dont have no3 kit. So Need some time to bought one and measure.

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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@Deanna
I use complete RO water. My tap water is very hard. GH =23
I dont have No3 and PO4 test kit, but will bought some early.
I use ADA africana aquasoil and mine is 2.5 yrs old.
Flow is 650lit/hr with a HOB, using ceramic rings, Ada bio rio, purigen.
CO2 is 66.4 PPM from pH and KH

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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by niladribasu View Post
@Deanna
I use complete RO water. My tap water is very hard. GH =23
I dont have No3 and PO4 test kit, but will bought some early.
I use ADA africana aquasoil and mine is 2.5 yrs old.
Flow is 650lit/hr with a HOB, using ceramic rings, Ada bio rio, purigen.
CO2 is 66.4 PPM from pH and KH
The ADA (I’m not an ADA expert) puts a twist in here but, given the age, it may not be adding much of anything at this point. As I’m sure @Seattle_Aquarist will suspect, if you are only using RO and only adding magnesium, I don’t see any way that calcium is present if the ADA is no longer contributing. Do I see leaf tips turning down (a sign of Ca deficiency)? Given 30% water changes, I’m thinking that your GH numbers are almost pure magnesium (a little Ca from the Flourish Comp) from the cumulative effect. You could do yet more testing with a Ca test, but it might just be easier to add some calcium along with the magnesium.

Iron: if I’m, reading the Aqua forest AF Iron Boost directions right, you’re adding .04ppm of iron per week. You could add that same amount daily and still be good.

More testing: do you have a TDS meter (about $13 on Amazon)? I’m wondering if your RO water is truly generating pure water. A TDS reading should be zero. The membranes need replacing every 6-10 months. I don’t see how the KH can be so high with what you’re adding and, I think, the ADA is actually supposed to drive KH down (when it’s fully charged). Check the expiration dates on your GH/KH kits.

And more testing: until you get the NO3 and PO4 tests, we can’t really guess too well whether or not your nutrients are limited.

Well, the calculator isn’t going to help with CO2. If you had 66ppm, your fish would be floating. Either your KH or pH, or both, tests are off, which isn’t unusual. It wouldn’t take more than a few tenths of a point to skew the results that far. However, given the general regions of the two, you are probably in the 30ppm area for CO2. A better test would be to put some tank water in a glass and let it sit out a day or two to fully de-gas. Then measure the pH (which are difficult to read) of that water and the tank water and see how much of a point difference there is between the two. A 1 point difference would put you in the ideal 30ppm area.

Summary: I’m going out on a limb and prescribe without having data:
Add something like Seachem Equilibrium to your RO water
Ada Brighty K: 3 ML 3 times in a week (9ML Total) – eliminate (replaced by Seachem Equilibrium)
Flourish Nitrogen: 9.1 ML once in a week – double this
Flourish Phosphorus: 15ML once a Weak – double this
Flourish Comprehensive: 1 ML 4 times in a week (4 ML Total) – double this
Aqua forest AF Iron Boost - 1.8ML once a week – eliminate (replaced by Flourish Comp)
MgSO4 - 2 gm once a week – eliminate (replaced by Seachem Equilibrium)
Move to 50% water change weekly

When you finally get your NO3 and PO4 tests, report back and we will see if changes need to be made. Watch new growth for signs of improvement over the next two weeks.

Roy?

Last edited by Deanna; 10-31-2018 at 05:37 PM. Reason: add
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