How should you go about adding fish groups to nano tanks? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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How should you go about adding fish groups to nano tanks?

I have a 5.5g that I'm going to add fish too soon. It will be a small shoal of 5-10 chili rasboras. My questions is - they need to be in groups but adding a lot of fish at once can cause an ammonia spike, how do I go about this? Is the bioload of 5-10 micro rasboras enough to cause a problem?
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 11:20 PM
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It is actually better to get fish all at once from one source than buying a few here and there from different batches and /or sources.

This way you are able to safeguard against cross-contamination.

What you will need to do, especially if newly cycled, is to change water everyday ( 25-50%) for at least 3-4 days when first introduce into aquarium. The bacteria grows very quickly to match bio-load, but it will take at least 72-96 hours to do this at temperatures 75 degrees or above.
If you test your water frequently and do water changes, this is a good way to prevent cross-contamination.

In the future if you want to add more fish then first place in a quarantine tank for at least 6 weeks before adding to display tank to make sure healthy.

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 11:35 PM
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I'm not sure it's necessary to do daily water changes for just 10 Chili Rasboras. Seems like overkill.

They are so tiny that the amount of ammonia that their waste will produce, even in a 5 gallon tank, will be negligible, and should easily be handled by the existing plants and bacteria in the tank (assuming the tank is already cycled, established, and with enough thriving plants and beneficial bacteria to consume the new baseline level of ammonia).

Last edited by DimitriSF; 07-23-2018 at 11:36 PM. Reason: spelling fix
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 11:57 PM
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It may not be necessary, I am sure you are right.

Maybe we need more info:
Is this recently cycled or an established tank?
Do you have lots of thriving plants in your tank with enough beneficial bacteria to consume baseline of ammonia?

From here we can give you a more realistic guideline.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer discus pair and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech - Breeding tank
30 g. low-tech Shrimp tank - wild-type neocaradina and Caridina cf. babaulti "Zebra"
9 gallon Shrimp tank- Caridina cantonensis ("Golden Bee's"). *Tank still at cycling stage.

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimitriSF View Post
I'm not sure it's necessary to do daily water changes for just 10 Chili Rasboras. Seems like overkill.

They are so tiny that the amount of ammonia that their waste will produce, even in a 5 gallon tank, will be negligible, and should easily be handled by the existing plants and bacteria in the tank (assuming the tank is already cycled, established, and with enough thriving plants and beneficial bacteria to consume the new baseline level of ammonia).
Of course it's better to do the water changes. Your making a lot of assumptions. It's a 5g tank, water changes are probably the easiest think one can do.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 09:19 AM
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Of course it's better to do the water changes. Your making a lot of assumptions. It's a 5g tank, water changes are probably the easiest think one can do.
Is it? Let's just agree to disagree.

IMO, it's not better to do daily water changes. Potentially messing with your water parameters and temperatures, on a daily basis, is more likely to cause problems, versus just leaving the tank be and letting its established bacteria and plants do their job.

These little guys are super tiny, very hardy, and their combined bioload is low. I'd be surprised if 10 Chilis managed to produce *any* detectable increases in ammonia, let alone levels so high, that you advocate daily water changes. After all, these are the world's smallest aquarium fish (not goldfish poop factories).

Lastly, this whole discussion is potentially moot. If the OP just buys the fish from a *reputable* LFS, just buy two or three, wait a few days, then go buy a few more, etc. If it's from a reputable LFS, I don't see any dangers with that.

Also, I'm not sure what "assumptions" I'm making. He posted in the Planted Nano Tanks forum. It's not an assumption to think his nano tank is planted.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 01:38 PM
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Your always safer dong water changes. There is no debate. What bacteria are you talking about in the water column? Water changes have pretty much zero to do with a tank establishing itself. You are misinformed. Your making assumptions based on the OP and you know nothing about their setup in terms of plant mass, growth, husbandry, etc.

Again your making more assumptions on where the OP bought the fish. You can't use your argument for all situations, but the water change woud be beneficial to all.

Water changes are preventive, not doing them and then something happening is reactive.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 02:24 PM
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I tend to add the whole group at once.

There are more unknown factors here like the pH and whether the tank will be preventatively treated. And then there is Prime, just in case.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 04:44 PM
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Ive never had micro-fish such as this-- so I forget that their bio-loads are much smaller than my larger African/ South American tetras and cichlids. So, yes, changing water everyday might not be necessary.


In my case, with water perfect for the fish I keep and minimal pH fluctuation in 24 hours, daily water changes are a ++. Situations are different and we should ask questions before giving pat answers- so I do appreciate the wake up to that point.

This is why I do daily, large water changes when first get fish. It may not work for everyone or be necessary:
- of course, bioload- to match bacteria to new fish load
- to lower bacterial and, if present on new fish, parasite load in water. When acclimate fish they are often very stressed from transportation to LFS and then acclimation to your tank- their immune systems are at a low point due to stress. Most of my fish are wild so then I do a preventive de-worming and observe for external parasites. But, I also do this with my discus, which are not wild.

Daily water changes will not effect beneficial bacterial growth in any way, the bacteria grows on surfaces and whatever is free-floating is so negligible it is not worth worrying about.

As long as we stay within 4 degrees of the tank temperature on water changes we are good- that is very easy to do with a thermometer.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer discus pair and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech - Breeding tank
30 g. low-tech Shrimp tank - wild-type neocaradina and Caridina cf. babaulti "Zebra"
9 gallon Shrimp tank- Caridina cantonensis ("Golden Bee's"). *Tank still at cycling stage.

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 05:22 PM
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I have 2 Spec V's running now for several years, and had two 5.5g tanks running in the past and have always added an entire school (8-10) of the smallest fish at one time. The tanks were fully cycled and fully planted. I think this is important. I also had colonies of RCS started before the fish went in.

I've added chilis, ruby tetras, boraras urophthalmoides, all of which are really tiny fish as someone mentioned. I've also added either cory habrosus or cory hastatus to these tank, although those were added separately, weeks after the initial stock. I didn't feel the need for daily water changes (they are really so tiny) and everyone did just fine.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
Your always safer dong water changes. There is no debate.....You are misinformed.
I'm not misinformed. Plenty of people don't even do regular water changes, beyond top offs, yet maintain very healthy planted tanks and fish, for years and years and years.

The OP can just introduce a few fish at a time, if he's absolutely paranoid.

Daily water changes, for just a few nano fish, is overkill. Do them, if it makes you feel better, but please don't tell me and everyone who doesn't advocate daily water changes, that were all somehow misinformed, and that your way is settled law.

We're all friends here. And there's more than one way to maintain a healthy planted aquarium.

All the best,
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 08:18 PM
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Plenty of people don't even do regular water changes, beyond top offs, yet maintain very healthy planted tanks and fish, for years and years and years
Your COMPLETELY missing the point. Anyone can have a tank without water changes. Every tank is different so the NO REGULAR WATER change route will not work in every tank. Changing regular water can be applied to any tank and when someone doesn't know their tank that well or someone is giving advise without knowing the necessary information (like you are) your always better off doing the water change. This is not debatable. Its a FACT!!!!!
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimitriSF View Post
I'm not sure it's necessary to do daily water changes for just 10 Chili Rasboras. Seems like overkill.

They are so tiny that the amount of ammonia that their waste will produce, even in a 5 gallon tank, will be negligible, and should easily be handled by the existing plants and bacteria in the tank (assuming the tank is already cycled, established, and with enough thriving plants and beneficial bacteria to consume the new baseline level of ammonia).
I partially agree and disagree. Having had a spec v at one time, yes absolutely 5.5g can handle 10 Chilis all at once.

However, a lot of us overfeed, especially easy with those little guys and that's where the ammonia spike will probably reveal itself.

I agree with a few partial water changes in the days following the addition of the fish.

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
Changing regular water can be applied to any tank and when someone doesn't know their tank that well or someone is giving advise without knowing the necessary information (like you are) your always better off doing the water change. This is not debatable. Its a FACT!!!!!
Come on, dude. Dial it back. Please extend the same courtesy I'm extending to you, and don't yell at me.

I have enough information, from the OP, to deduce that repeated daily WCs is overkill.

The OP just asked about possible ammonia spikes from adding a few chili rasboras. There shouldn't be any significant spike from such a small number of super tiny nano fish, and certainly nothing that would merit the overkill advise of daily water changes.

My advise is perfectly reasonable in this scenario.

Worst case, if the OP notices an increase in ammonia (beyond .5 ppm) , he can just dose and do a WC then. I seriously doubt there would be though.

D
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 09:05 PM
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I’m not doing anything wrong but correcting your incorrect information and you can’t accept it. No one is yelling. The CAPS are simply to highlight and emphasis something. I’m not texting you in all caps LOL.

You even told OP that water changes will affect the B.B. and cycle. That is just fundamentally wrong and pretty much everyone here would agree. But since you seem so experienced why not show some of your setups. How bout 3 of the ones your most proud of.
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