First 5 gallon with shrimp! - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-29-2017, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
KleineVampir's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 252
First 5 gallon with shrimp!

Hey everybody I just wanted to get some advice about what to do in my situation. I'm hoping you guys know something I don't that can help. I do a lot of research but sometimes there's just no substitute for talking to people with real experience. And basically, there is nobody watching this tank with an experienced eye.

Anyways it's a 5 gallon tank with some LED's...and a couple plants. A decent-sized Java fern and some kind of micro-sword plant. Also I got a piece of Malaysian driftwood in there, and the substrate is gravel. I kinda regret the gravel and I realize some food and stuff gets lost down there, but at the same time I think it's much more interesting than something like sand.

I have 5 red cherry shrimp. 4 females and 1 male, I believe. They are all nice and red, but the male less so. So what's the problem?

Well, one of the shrimp looked like it was going to molt for a few days, and now it looks like the gap in the shrimp's back is much smaller again. Though I still notice there are little 'tears' in the sides of that shrimp, like she's about to burst out of her shell. Also today I observed her walking around the tank kind of frantically, which was weird because I hadn't fed them. Finally I threw in an algae pellet thing and now she is eating that, along with one or two other shrimps. I thought maybe she was hungry and in need of calcium or something. I actually got so worried about it that I bought some mineral stones. Hopefully those are good! It seems like them being able to molt is very important, given that they die if they can't, and they also won't breed if they don't!

Also, for some reason I thought the cure to her problems was "Magic Powder" from Discobee. I thought some Asian out there had all this shrimp stuff figured out and had the perfect food for them! But to my understanding, it's just bacteria and enzymes, which helps them digest. And it helps the biofilm layer so they can be eating more out of the tank passively. I actually thought it was food! I guess it is a little more indirect than that, but please tell me more about it because there is very little information on that magic powder. I looked at Bacter AE to get more info, thinking they're the same thing in essence, and I learned a bit but it still seems weird and like there's something missing.

Also I'm worried that my 5 gallon tank isn't big enough. Not for space, but for the purpose of having stability. Their tank seems to be going from about 78 to 80 degrees Fahrenheit. They're in my room and my house doesn't have central air. So there are times when I have to turn on the AC. I wish their tank was cooler, but apparently it's hard and expensive to cool it, and they can supposedly be ok in it.

So...any advice? I want to breed them! Is it possible that the temperature variance is going to be too much for them to breed in?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20170825_153006.jpg
Views:	77
Size:	56.9 KB
ID:	785330  

KleineVampir is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-29-2017, 10:06 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 19
Ok so not in any order but the temp is fine. They breed more at 78-80. More plant cover is going to be a big thing. 5g is alright my cherry tank is only a bit more. Have you done any water changes lately. That triggers molting most the time. 15+ shrimp seems to be the number to go for to breed them. And I'd make sure to have some actual shrimp food for all the needed minerals.gravel is ok it allows more places for shrimplets to hide and forage for food. And color wise most males seem to have less color than the females

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
khaotickross is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-29-2017, 10:08 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 16
Your tank looks like a very nice start! It's been a little while since I've kept shrimp, but I've had great success with them in the past, so I'll share what I learned.

First off, it's normal for the male to be "less red". Don't worry, he's fine! Specifically, they usually have more clear marbling in their flesh than the females do. For red cherry shrimp, you'll generally only see the males and females be the same redness if they are the specifically bred "Fire Reds".

I wouldn't be concerned about the cleanliness of gravel. As long as your shrimp are healthy and feel secure, they'll run around your gravel scooping up any fallen food bits long before it gets too embedded in the gravel. I actually would recommend not even trying to vacuum the gravel since, once your shrimp start breeding, you'll inevitably hoover up as many shrimplets as you do bits of shrimp waste. I used gravel in my shrimp tanks, and just used my hands to grab fallen plant bits and did the occasional netting of larger pieces, and left it at that.

It is, however, concerning that you mention "tears" in the female's shell. That's not typical. When shrimp eat, unlike fish, they don't get "fat", instead you can see the poop in their backs, and it runs all the way to the end of their tail where it comes out, just like when you're de-veining marine shrimp for dinner. Could we get a picture of this? I'm primarily concerned since you said she was oddly active. It could just be that she's behaving oddly since she's newly added to the tank, but I've often seen individual shrimp becoming randomly super active for several continuous hours just prior to dying within 24 hours of the activity burst.

As for food, I would like to recommend Hikari Crab Cuisine as an excellent shrimp food in addition to your algae wafers. Mine have always done very well on it (I used it as the primary food for a 10 gallon colony tank, where I went from 10 shrimp to over 100 in a matter of months), and typically prefer it over algae wafers or other veggie-only foods. They also really like the biofilm that will develop on Indian Almond leaves or dried fruit tree leaves if you leave them in tank water for a few days. It's pretty cool to see the leaf skeletons they leave behind after nibbling on the leaves for a few days. Just make sure that the leaves were both grown and collected far away from any potential contaminants. I've had good luck with this seller's Indian Almond leaves: [Ebay Link Removed] Ketapang Inc | eBay Stores[/url] Once you're tank is more mature, I'm sure they'll get a lot of value off eating aufwchs and the natural tank biofilm, too. I'm afraid I don't know much about Magic Powder or Bacter AE in terms of promoting biofilm creation, though.

In my experience, shrimp are super easy to breed. The key to breeding shrimp seems to be making sure the filter won't suck up the teeny-tiny babies (sponge filters are ideal for this, but I can't tell from the picture what filter you have), high, stable water quality, and giving them lots of cover. Obviously, provided that you get additional lights to support them (even an additional couple cheap Amazon Tingkam LED strips would probably be enough in a tank this shallow), nitrate-sucking plants like floating plants and stem plants can help greatly with water quality and stability as well, in addition to providing cover; my shrimp have loved things like frogbit and salvinia (and it's hilarious to watch them hold on to the really small salvinia only to realize that they're heavy enough to make the salvinia sink - cue shrimp paralyzed by indecision until it taps against the tank bottom and trundles off like nothing happened). I've typically done weekly 30% water changes and left it at that. For you, a 5 gallon tank might be sufficient as long as you can avoid swings in water temperature and you either really keep on top of water changes or add some nitrate-sucking fast-growing plants, which aren't critical now but they'll become more important as your shrimp population grows. You might even consider something like 25% bi-weekly water changes. Chillers are expensive, but if the issue is that the water is occasionally becoming too cold and that happens somewhat gradually at a pace that a heater could compensate for, then a quality nano heater might help stabilize the temperature. If you aren't already aware of them, Drs. Foster and Smith have a pretty good selection of heaters at reasonable prices. For now, keep an eye on your shrimp for signs of stress, like hiding, and if you're seeing that a lot then consider getting a larger tank very soon since they can't take too much stress before it kills them. I'd also recommend adding some additional dense cover to your tank sometime soon to give them a little more security. It could be more wood, live plants, fake plants, whatever you prefer, just so long as it provides some nice dense leaves or crevices for them to wedge into or under.

As long as you have moderately hard water from the tap, I wouldn't be quite so worried about promoting shrimp molting. I live in Florida, where water is very hard, and I never had to do anything at all to ensure safe molting. It's a bigger concern for critters like crayfish, which I HAVE had killed by molting problems.
PyroAurah is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-29-2017, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
KleineVampir's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 252
Well, I've only had them for a couple weeks and honestly I was hoping to get away with no water changes. The guy at the store said I could neglect them and they would actually be better off for it. But, as a half measure against nitrate build-up, I got a couple plants and I was just going to hope that would be enough! Is that possible or is it absolutely necessary for me to change the water? After I put the magic powder in there, the water cleared up a bit and it looks great! More clear than the picture.

Oh, about the filter. I was actually wondering about that and forgot to ask. That black cube you can see in the picture...It has a small filter on the bottom of it along with the LED's. Of course I am worried about sucking up shrimplets, if I ever had any! However, the filter is very weak. I have to look pretty closely to even notice some particles in the water get sucked into it. I was hoping that the filter was too weak and too high up to suck up shrimplets. Do you think that's probably the case?

And do you think I can get away with breeding with the 5 shrimp I have? Like what do you think my chances are? I'm guessing I could do it if the conditions were good enough.
KleineVampir is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 02:28 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 16
So, to get really efficient nitrate absorption from plants, you need fast-growing plants like stem plants or floating plants, and you need them to actually grow fast since they're absorbing the nutrients in order to actually grow. That means you need better light and you likely will want to dose at least a little bit of fertilizers (of the amount appropriate to your growth rate and quantity of plants, otherwise you may experience algae issues). The light you have currently is pretty dim, and if I had to hazard a guess, then it alone is probably only suited for low-light plants like anubias, java fern, the lower-light crypts (i.e. not things like cryptocoryne parva). Note that light that looks fairly bright to the human eye can still be dimmer than you might expect in terms of plant growth. The java fern that you have, and the other plant, which I think is actually a crypt or a swordplant (I can't see too clearly) not a microsword - at least I hope so, since most species of microswords need much higher light than you have - are slow growers and will not absorb a whole lot of nitrates unless the tank has a LOT more of them. As an aside, I see that your maybe-crypt is still in a pot. You should probably take it out of the pot, get the wool out of the roots, and plant it in the gravel proper. If you're at all nervous about it, YouTube has some really great demonstration videos for this. That all said, 5 shrimp is not a huge bioload, even for a 5 gallon tank, so this isn't critical yet.

Doing no water changes at all is honestly not something I'd recommend for any tank, much less a shrimp tank. Contrary to what you seem to have been told, shrimp can be a bit delicate, especially since once their health becomes unstable they never truly recover, unlike fish. Once a shrimp's body starts to go opaque, it's over. If you fix the issue it may cling to life for as long as another few weeks, but it's still definitely going to die. Shrimp, IME, are very much a case of "when everything's great, it's perfect, but when it starts to go bad, it's awful". I strongly advise not to tempt fate with shrimp unless you're running an experiment with a small population that you're willing to lose; people usually only do that sort of thing when they have a good breeding population going and they can pull a few shrimp to another tank for experimentation, so I wouldn't suggest trying minimal-water-changes at this time. Once, I neglected water changes entirely on a red cherry shrimp tank for a little over a month (yes, I was terrible, I admit it) due to a serious family emergency, and by the time I came back around to working on the tank, I was struggling with trying to halt a massive shrimp die-off where I was scooping out sad little dead shrimp on a daily basis for a while. It was super depressing. Don't do it. Seriously. Please note that just because water appears clear to the human eye does not mean that it is safe for animals - ammonia and nitrite, both of which can kill (the former being more deadly than the latter) are both entirely clear. If you don't already have one, then I strongly advise you get a water test kit and use it at least every couple weeks before water changes. API makes a good one that is widely available. Also note that the smaller the tank you have, the more important water changes become since toxicity can build up more quickly in a small volume of water; think of it like food dye - one drop in 1 gallon will be much darker and more concentrated than 1 drop in a 50 gallon tank.

As for the filter, at the very least get or make (this is really easy and inexpensive) a sock for it. That will probably minimize shrimplet suction to acceptable levels. The shrimplets are so tiny you can barely see them, and they like to wander absolutely everywhere. They can and will get sucked up quite easily by even a weak filter. Having the sock on the filter won't hurt the adults any either, since they aren't great swimmers and the sock will probably cut the flow a tad. Just be sure to clean it off and/or replace it every so often so it doesn't cut your filter's suction too badly when it gets dirty.

Under good conditions, shrimp will breed like rabbits. Even with one male and four females, it's quite likely that they'll breed once they've settled in and grown to breeding size. You can tell when a female is ready to breed because there will be a little opaque square in her back (we call this "saddled"). That will turn into a bunch of round eggs stuck to her swimmerets (when she has these, we say she is "berried" - for RCS the eggs can be either orange or green, though the color does not mean anything), and when they're fertilized and have grown a bit, you'll even be able to see little black eyes on them. You don't need to do anything special to get the shrimp to breed other than keep them fed on quality shrimp (or crab) food, have clean and stable water, and good cover so they feel safe.

i apologize if I come off a bit negative here. I'm actually really glad you're seeking out this sort of information - it shows that you are a responsible shrimp keeper who is interested in the well-being of your animals.
PyroAurah is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 04:03 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
KleineVampir's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 252
Yes, and thanks for your help. You may very well save these shrimp and possibly make more of them!

It seems this is an exercise in learning the difference between theory and practice. I'm good at theory, but I sometimes lack practicality. Yes I know all about how they reproduce, and probably all of the technical details. I just lack the practical knowledge of actually keeping a tank my size with my exact conditions. It's amazing how even researching it for many hours can't really prepare you for having them.

So...I suppose what I need is a tube. I was really counting on not changing the water, ha. Well, it's only been two weeks. And judging by what you're saying, you need a crapload of plants to totally offset the nitrates and all that. So while in theory they DO that, not nearly to a practical-enough extent.

Anyways, about the filter situation. I'm not sure what to do about it. You mention filter socks. That sounds like it would be a good idea under normal circumstances, but I was a ding-bat and bought a big cube tank that was on sale. (Even though I should have just got a used one off of craigslist, ha.) So the filter is on the bottom of this cube, which is about 5 inches in every dimension. Any ideas on how to put something over it? Also the light is right next to it. It almost sounds like I need a new tank with different stuff. Or maybe a separate filter and plant light. Maybe the glass tank itself is ok.

Also about water changes: Do I need an RO device? All I have now is water conditioner. This tank is not near any water source so it's probably gonna be a pain to do this. Though it is only a 5 gallon tank.
KleineVampir is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 04:07 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Chizpa305's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Miami
Posts: 325
I would go easy on the food. The factory filter for that tank is not very good and therefore the water can get too much excess organic waste if you give them a lot of food. I haven't heard about that powder you mentioned, but in my experience, shrimps are really good at taking care of themselves. I never feed mine directly, and yet they always manage to find fish food leftovers in the soil and reproduce like crazy.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Chizpa305 is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
KleineVampir's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 252
Hm, it looks like my big reply didn't go through.

Anyways, since you're familiar with that tank in particular, do you think I should be worried about it sucking up shrimplets?
KleineVampir is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-20-2017, 08:29 AM
Moderator
 
Darkblade48's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto/Singapore
Posts: 11,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by KleineVampir View Post
Hm, it looks like my big reply didn't go through.

Anyways, since you're familiar with that tank in particular, do you think I should be worried about it sucking up shrimplets?
I have manually approved your post. Sometimes, long posts/posts with links/images get accidentally caught in the (automated) spam filter, especially for newer users.

Anthony


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
Darkblade48 is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-21-2017, 08:07 PM
Newbie
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3
I have 2 RCS AND they have breed to 30 odd now a small filter can suck up the baby's but a peace of stocking over it will stop that and I give them spinch as well as shrimp food the baby's love it just boil it for a few mins and drop the leaves in a also drop in some have miss they like to hide in it and feed off it good luck
Jayefc1 is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-21-2017, 08:08 PM
Newbie
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3
Moss not miss
Jayefc1 is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome