25cm Nano Cube with Melting HC! Help! - The Planted Tank Forum
 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 18
25cm Nano Cube with Melting HC! Help!

Hi All,

This is my second attempt to grow HC on my 25cm Nano cube. It looks like it's failing but would love save it if I could. Hope to get some help here to at least know what I'm doing wrong.

First off here's a picture of the HC I got when I bought them and pictures of the tank.





It looks great and there's nothing more soothing than watching them pearl for the first week or so.

Then somewhere between the end of first week and the now (3 weeks), things started to go sideways:




It's pretty nasty, but I think there are a lot of little leaves still surviving.

Now here's my setup:

ADA Amazonia
CO2 about 1bps
DIY Lights (see pictures below) - light strips of about 2 meters of white light (6500k) and 1 meter of red/blue grow lights.
Small HOB Filter, should be good enough circulation

Did some water test:
GH quite high 9dGH, very likely because of the rock
PH 6.5-7
Temperate 28-31 degrees (too hot maybe?)




I try to do water changes of around half a gallon every 2 days and around 50% weekly
Lights are on for about 6 hours a day
Dose Florish and Potassium/Iron every other day maybe 3-4 drops (1/3 mil)


I'm thinking of giving up HC after this trial but will give it a bit more patience, but I'd like to know what you might suggest to do to first turn things around.

I'm going to try turning lights off for 1-2 days or adjusting lighting to 2-4 hours a day to get rid of the algae.
Also want to put a Siamese flying fox in there to help eat some of it (bad idea? too small a tank?)

Would love some advise. Appreciate any help! Thank you!
PandaLoach is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 03:30 PM
Algae Grower
 
JerrySingh's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: south Africa
Posts: 48
Hi
It could be the temp there hey......


From hobby to addiction
JerrySingh is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 03:33 PM
Algae Grower
 
JerrySingh's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: south Africa
Posts: 48
SAE are great for algae when they are young as they get older, they get lazy and generally eat the food that u put in the tank


From hobby to addiction
JerrySingh is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 04:55 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 336
Looks to me like there is too much HC to begin with and it blocked the light from penetrating through the giant mass of HC so it started to melt on you. You basically started with a full carpet that needed severe trimming. Next time, try planting about 75% less HC and let it spread and carpet naturally so it can develop a good root structure so you can trim it as it grows so it won't ever become that thick. It also looks like a lot of it isnt even in the substrate but just kind of bunched up together. With no fish you can afford to really crank the co2 too. Id trim it all to about an inch and see how it recovers before you totally give up. It is a stem plant and grows fairly quickly when it's happy.

If all else fails just start over with less HC and I would even consider a dry start, especially since you're running co2 after flooding. A dry start will also help gauge if your lights are good enough, which I don't see it being a problem.

Temp seems a little warm, I try to keep my tanks at or around 25 give or take 1-2.

Adjusting lights and photoperiod now will only cause more problems. Your tank is still adjusting to its current parameters and if it keeps changing, your tank will never catch up.

Livestock for algae control is kind of a terrible idea, especially for nano. All you are doing is increasing bioload and it isn't fixing the root cause of the algae.
Opare and Opare like this.
RyRob is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 05:28 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (73/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 5,942
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyRob View Post
Looks to me like there is too much HC to begin with and it blocked the light from penetrating through the giant mass of HC so it started to melt on you. You basically started with a full carpet that needed severe trimming. Next time, try planting about 75% less HC and let it spread and carpet naturally so it can develop a good root structure so you can trim it as it grows so it won't ever become that thick. It also looks like a lot of it isnt even in the substrate but just kind of bunched up together. With no fish you can afford to really crank the co2 too. Id trim it all to about an inch and see how it recovers before you totally give up. It is a stem plant and grows fairly quickly when it's happy.

If all else fails just start over with less HC and I would even consider a dry start, especially since you're running co2 after flooding. A dry start will also help gauge if your lights are good enough, which I don't see it being a problem.

Temp seems a little warm, I try to keep my tanks at or around 25 give or take 1-2.

Adjusting lights and photoperiod now will only cause more problems. Your tank is still adjusting to its current parameters and if it keeps changing, your tank will never catch up.

Livestock for algae control is kind of a terrible idea, especially for nano. All you are doing is increasing bioload and it isn't fixing the root cause of the algae.
Yeah I agree with @RyRob you have several issues that could have caused this, as mentioned, if you planted it that thick to begin with would make it more challenging, especially in less than perfect conditions. Every HC carpet I've done I break apart the HC into maybe 3 stems and plant it that way. Also I never grew HC in water that warm, maybe someone else has and can chime in.

The only other thing I could think of is the light, I have no idea how much light you have.
houseofcards is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 11:02 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
ChemGuyEthan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (17/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 563
I'll echo a few other sentiments about the temp and trimming down (I agree too about planting more sparsely). It looks like the plants you bought were emmersed-grown, so there will be die off as they transition from above-water growth to underwater growth, especially if you don't blast them with CO2. And the algae is probably just feeding on all the excess nutrients spilling into the water column from the dying plant matter. That should go away when you get the tank under control again. You can always remove what you can by hand in the meantime. I don't recommend buying a cleanup crew of sorts just yet until you've got plants growing in a stable environment.

So try to trim your plants down, blast the CO2, and check nitrogen levels (ammonia/nitrite/nitrate) to see if they're high, then do water changes as necessary. Oh and your water hardness is fine. I've had HC growing in liquid rock before... it's not that touchy in that respect, but CO2 levels are important in my experience.

Best of luck with this one! HC's a little tricky at first, but after some trial and error you'll get the hang of it.
Opare and Opare like this.

Old tanks, all torn down:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hope to get a new tank (or two) up soon...
ChemGuyEthan is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-30-2016, 06:30 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 18
Thank you everyone for the advises. I've learned a lot just with this thread. Gathering all input I feel that it's going to be too difficult to turn things around.

So I decided to clear it out and rebuild. The LFS has some other carpet plant that resembles HC that doesn't require CO2, water cooler or bright lights. So I gave it a try.

Took the advice of @RyRob and only got one square of the plant but went against the advice of the LFSs person and cut it up into mini 1cm squares to plant.





Anyone know the name of the plant?

Here's my current plan to maintain it for the first week:

Week 1:
- keep the lights dimmer at 6hrs
- don't dose anything (don't want algae to appear again)
- blast CO2
- slowly increase lighting towards end of week

Week 2:
- lights @8hrs
- dose a couple drops of Iron and potassium and flourish (separately) every other day
- observe for algae daily and reduce light and dosing if I see any signs

Temperature has dropped this week and we're at 26-28C now.

Question:
Should I start dosing earlier if I see it start melting or turning brown?
Should I float some other plants in case the soil still has too much nutrients? Since this is only one 10cm square with lots of soil.
Any pointers on how to react to certain things when they come up?

Thank you and I hope I get a carpet going on this third trial!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PandaLoach is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaLoach View Post
Thank you everyone for the advises. I've learned a lot just with this thread. Gathering all input I feel that it's going to be too difficult to turn things around.

So I decided to clear it out and rebuild. The LFS has some other carpet plant that resembles HC that doesn't require CO2, water cooler or bright lights. So I gave it a try.

Took the advice of @RyRob and only got one square of the plant but went against the advice of the LFSs person and cut it up into mini 1cm squares to plant.





Anyone know the name of the plant?

Here's my current plan to maintain it for the first week:

Week 1:
- keep the lights dimmer at 6hrs
- don't dose anything (don't want algae to appear again)
- blast CO2
- slowly increase lighting towards end of week

Week 2:
- lights @8hrs
- dose a couple drops of Iron and potassium and flourish (separately) every other day
- observe for algae daily and reduce light and dosing if I see any signs

Temperature has dropped this week and we're at 26-28C now.

Question:
Should I start dosing earlier if I see it start melting or turning brown?
Should I float some other plants in case the soil still has too much nutrients? Since this is only one 10cm square with lots of soil.
Any pointers on how to react to certain things when they come up?

Thank you and I hope I get a carpet going on this third trial!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Anyone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PandaLoach is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 04:30 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
ChemGuyEthan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (17/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 563
Still looks a bit like HC to me... try posting a picture and description in the plants sub-forum, someone there might know.

I typically just got diatoms towards the end of cycling, maybe some gsa.

Honestly one of the best ways to get a nice carpet growing is the dry start method... helps the roots establish themselves and then when you flood you just crank the CO2 until the plants start to convert back to their submersed form. You can carpet without doing dry start as well, I've just had decent success with it.

A few things, is the substrate cycled already? That'll help determine whether you need to dose anything. Cause if that's ADA aquasoil I spot, then it'll leach a bunch of ammonium into the water so you won't need to add anything if it hasn't cycled yet. If it's old substrate, it may not provide any nutrients to the water column, so you may need to dose at like 1/2 or 1/4 recommended amounts in that case until the roots of the plants establish themselves and can pull nutrients better from the substrate.

And this is silly, but just to be sure, if you use tap water you're treating it with something like Seachem prime or some other dechlorinator, right? The chlorine/chloramine can burn plants.

If you do get algae, it'll be more likely the high light is an issue with so little plant material, so floaters aren't a bad idea as they'll not only soak up nutrients, but also keep some of the light from hitting the tank.

Old tanks, all torn down:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hope to get a new tank (or two) up soon...
ChemGuyEthan is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 05:38 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemGuyEthan View Post
Still looks a bit like HC to me... try posting a picture and description in the plants sub-forum, someone there might know.



I typically just got diatoms towards the end of cycling, maybe some gsa.



Honestly one of the best ways to get a nice carpet growing is the dry start method... helps the roots establish themselves and then when you flood you just crank the CO2 until the plants start to convert back to their submersed form. You can carpet without doing dry start as well, I've just had decent success with it.



A few things, is the substrate cycled already? That'll help determine whether you need to dose anything. Cause if that's ADA aquasoil I spot, then it'll leach a bunch of ammonium into the water so you won't need to add anything if it hasn't cycled yet. If it's old substrate, it may not provide any nutrients to the water column, so you may need to dose at like 1/2 or 1/4 recommended amounts in that case until the roots of the plants establish themselves and can pull nutrients better from the substrate.



And this is silly, but just to be sure, if you use tap water you're treating it with something like Seachem prime or some other dechlorinator, right? The chlorine/chloramine can burn plants.



If you do get algae, it'll be more likely the high light is an issue with so little plant material, so floaters aren't a bad idea as they'll not only soak up nutrients, but also keep some of the light from hitting the tank.


Thanks @ChemGuyEthan!

So this is reused ADA soil so I expect it to have less ammonium. I'm starting with little ferts now and slowly ease up until I'm seeing the first slight sign of algae. Also doing 1/4 water change every 2/3 days.

I'll try increase lighting and see how it goes.

I usually do a mix of treated tap water and distill water. For the quarter WC I use distilled.

As of now day3 around 5% of leaves are becoming transparent. But I'm seeing some obvious growth on around 5% of others.

I think I should hold things steady as they seem to start acclimating.
PandaLoach is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 06:31 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
Opare's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: KL, Malaysia
Posts: 1,926
25cm Nano Cube with Melting HC! Help!

I would keep light low (both photoperiod and intensity) for more than just a week. Keep it there until you are confident the tank is under control.
If it melts initially don't panic and dose, only start worrying once it's been a while and it should have adapted to your tank.
Floaters can help your tank, especially in the intial setup. Give it a go if you want make sure you thing them out though so they don't diffuse light too much.
I think the plant is Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo', but could just still be HC.
And yes keep holding things steady for a bit! Good call.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Opare is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 06:47 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opare View Post
I would keep light low (both photoperiod and intensity) for more than just a week. Keep it there until you are confident the tank is under control.
If it melts initially don't panic and dose, only start worrying once it's been a while and it should have adapted to your tank.
Floaters can help your tank, especially in the intial setup. Give it a go if you want make sure you thing them out though so they don't diffuse light too much.
I think the plant is Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo', but could just still be HC.
And yes keep holding things steady for a bit! Good call.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

@Opare good to get a nice echo on the plan. Fingers crossed!

Does 2-3 day 1/4 WC sounds reasonable? I'm still adding a few drops of everything since I'm using distilled water combined with frequent water change.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PandaLoach is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 06:55 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
Opare's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: KL, Malaysia
Posts: 1,926
I am a big proponent of regular water changes, especially when tanks first start up, as it helps you remove organic build up from decaying plants etc. So yes I'm all for it.
Maybe chuck in a big water change at the end of the week too.
HC is quite small and undemanding as far as nutrients go so yeah just a little bit of fertilising should be enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PandaLoach and PandaLoach like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Opare is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 02:04 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
ChemGuyEthan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (17/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opare View Post
I would keep light low (both photoperiod and intensity) for more than just a week. Keep it there until you are confident the tank is under control.
If it melts initially don't panic and dose, only start worrying once it's been a while and it should have adapted to your tank.
Floaters can help your tank, especially in the intial setup. Give it a go if you want make sure you thing them out though so they don't diffuse light too much.
I think the plant is Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo', but could just still be HC.
And yes keep holding things steady for a bit! Good call.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ah yes, 'Monte Carlo'! I bet that's right. I had completely forgotten about that plant. Grows nicely, I had some for a short while.

I'll also agree with keeping the light low for the start. The plants will be a bit shocked having been transferred from one tank to another, so it's bound to happen that you have some melt. But just keep it consistent and they'll bounce back. Plants are pretty resilient, even with conditions like low light levels they'll grow. And the water changes are probably a good idea (though I'll admit I was pretty lazy about mine in fresh tanks, haha).
Opare and Opare like this.

Old tanks, all torn down:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hope to get a new tank (or two) up soon...
ChemGuyEthan is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 18
Looking at the google/tropica pictures, it does look very much like Monte Carlo! Thanks for solving the mystery. Will do more research and try to keep things constant. It's difficult to keep calm and do less when you're a new enthusiastic hobbyist. Thank you guys!

Things seem to be turning around today! At least the melting is not spreading and I think (or am hallucinating) that there's some growth.



PandaLoach is offline  
Reply

Tags
algae problem, carpet, hemianthus, melting plants, nano tank

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome