rummy nose dying one by one - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
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rummy nose dying one by one

Hi. I have a planted 20 gallon tank with originally 9 rummy nose. In the last week, I have been losing one almost every day. I am down to 5 now. They always seems healthy (Active, red nose, always eating), but then the next day, I always find one dead. On the dead body, it doesn't show any sign of sickness, parasites, or stress. I have had them for about two years. I checked the water and its 0 ammonia and nitrite and 10 nitrate. temp: 78, ph 7.0. We did have a really hot day few days ago, but the water temp didn't go past 82. Any ideas?

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 11:26 PM
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What's your gH and kH? Injecting CO2?


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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by brohawk View Post
What's your gH and kH? Injecting CO2?
gh is 8. idk about kh. no co2

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hi-Chiu View Post
Hi. I have a planted 20 gallon tank with originally 9 rummy nose. In the last week, I have been losing one almost every day. I am down to 5 now. They always seems healthy (Active, red nose, always eating), but then the next day, I always find one dead. On the dead body, it doesn't show any sign of sickness, parasites, or stress. I have had them for about two years. I checked the water and its 0 ammonia and nitrite and 10 nitrate. temp: 78, ph 7.0. We did have a really hot day few days ago, but the water temp didn't go past 82. Any ideas?
The temperature is not the culprit. I keep rummy-nose tetras with discus, they thrive in warmer temperatures- usually living 5-6 years.

Have you added any other fish in the last 6 weeks?

What other fish are in the tank?

What fertilizers do you use?

I just noticed the hardness at 8.0. All Rummy-nose are wild-caught so the hardness level would be enough to stress these fish over time. The hardness not directly killing them, but stressing them over a period of time and ( in turn) lowering their immune system. This, then, can lead to secondary issues. But, what is strange is that they are dying in the same week. This indicates something else killing them. I am thinking you introduced something ( a pathogen) recently ( last 6 weeks) that is taking them out.


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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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The temperature is not the culprit. I keep rummy-nose tetras with discus, they thrive in warmer temperatures- usually living 5-6 years.

Have you added any other fish in the last 6 weeks?

What other fish are in the tank?

What fertilizers do you use?

I just noticed the hardness at 8.0. All Rummy-nose are wild-caught so the hardness level would be enough to stress these fish over time. The hardness not directly killing them, but stressing them over a period of time and ( in turn) lowering their immune system. This, then, can lead to secondary issues. But, what is strange is that they are dying in the same week. This indicates something else killing them. I am thinking you introduced something ( a pathogen) recently ( last 6 weeks) that is taking them out.
I am using easy green fertilizer. I did recently add some threadfin rainbows 3 weeks ago and couldn't quarantine them because I did not have a spare tank. Any ideas on what I should do?
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Hi-Chiu View Post
I did recently add some threadfin rainbows 3 weeks ago and couldn't quarantine them because I did not have a spare tank.
Bingo! There is your answer.

Did you loose any of the threadfin rainbows?



Without symptoms it is a crap-shoot on how to treat.

I dont think its parasitic because you would see external symptoms ( like Ich) or scratching against objects etc...
It is too soon for them to be suffering from internal parasites because this takes awhile...


This leaves a viral or bacterial infection. Of the 2, a virus or bacteria, the only one I can think of that the fish can show absolutely no symptoms and turn up dead in 24 hours is columnaris. Columnaris isnt just evident with the tell-tale signs of saddle-back, mouth and fin erosion, etc...

There are 4 distinctive strains-- each with their own sets of symptoms.The most virulent being the type with no symptoms.


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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
Bingo! There is your answer.

Did you loose any of the threadfin rainbows?



Without symptoms it is a crap-shoot on how to treat.

I dont think its parasitic because you would see external symptoms ( like Ich) or scratching against objects etc...
It is too soon for them to be suffering from internal parasites because this takes awhile...


This leaves a viral or bacterial infection. Of the 2, a virus or bacteria, the only one I can think of that the fish can show absolutely no symptoms and turn up dead in 24 hours is columnaris. Columnaris isnt just evident with the tell-tale signs of saddle-back, mouth and fin erosion, etc...

There are 4 distinctive strains-- each with their own sets of symptoms.The most virulent being the type with no symptoms.
I lost 1 out of the 5 i ordered, but I am almost certain it died just because of shipping stress and acclimation. I have never dealt with something like this and am hesitant with blasting the tank with antibacterial medicine when I am not 100% sure what it is.

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Hi-Chiu View Post
I lost 1 out of the 5 i ordered, but I am almost certain it died just because of shipping stress and acclimation. I have never dealt with something like this and am hesitant with blasting the tank with antibacterial medicine when I am not 100% sure what it is.
Then I would wait until you are sure what it is.


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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 12:38 AM Thread Starter
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Then I would wait until you are sure what it is.
I just looked up some stuff about columnaris and it stated that one of the symptoms is white blotches on the body or mouth of the fish. I took a closer look at mine, but I do not see any white or yellow patches. If it is columnaris, shouldn't the threadfins have been the first to show signs of the disease if they introduced it? The threadfins look healthy.

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Hi-Chiu View Post
I just looked up some stuff about columnaris and it stated that one of the symptoms is white blotches on the body or mouth of the fish. I took a closer look at mine, but I do not see any white or yellow patches. If it is columnaris, shouldn't the threadfins have been the first to show signs of the disease if they introduced it? The threadfins look healthy.
In post 6 I wrote this :


"Of the 2, a virus or bacteria, the only one I can think of that the fish can show absolutely no symptoms and turn up dead in 24 hours is columnaris. Columnaris isnt just evident with the tell-tale signs of saddle-back, mouth and fin erosion, etc...

There are 4 distinctive strains-- each with their own sets of symptoms.The most virulent being the type with no symptoms."


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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 12:08 PM
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The death has nothing to do with disease. Rummynose are delicate fish hard to acclimate as most of them are wild caught. I lost an entire school of a dozen Rummy one by one in two weeks time with no apparent symptoms. Rummy came from black water that has near zero hardness and pH below 5. You will have better luck if you can slowly acclimate Rummy from black water set up to harder water over several months, or better if you can find domestic bred Rummy that are already adapted to harder water.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiger15 View Post
The death has nothing to do with disease. Rummynose are delicate fish hard to acclimate as most of them are wild caught. I lost an entire school of a dozen Rummy one by one in two weeks time with no apparent symptoms. Rummy came from black water that has near zero hardness and pH below 5. You will have better luck if you can slowly acclimate Rummy from black water set up to harder water over several months, or better if you can find domestic bred Rummy that are already adapted to harder water.
The deaths are due to acclimation issues after 2 years?

Ummm, okay.


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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 04:07 PM
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If ihey have been fine for two years and suddenly drop dead one by one with no disease symptoms, then it appears to be death from old age. Rummy are mostly wild caught adult fish, and 2 more years in captivity is approaching life expectancy. In the wild, Rummy and Cardinal tetra are 1 to 2 year fish spreading and dying off with the expansion and contraction of flood.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 05:36 PM
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If ihey have been fine for two years and suddenly drop dead one by one with no disease symptoms, then it appears to be death from old age. Rummy are mostly wild caught adult fish, and 2 more years in captivity is approaching life expectancy. In the wild, Rummy and Cardinal tetra are 1 to 2 year fish spreading and dying off with the expansion and contraction of flood.

Okay, lets look at your claim that Rummy-nose has reached its life-span at 2 years in aquarium:



"Lifespan for the rummy-nose tetra in the aquarium is usually 5 to 6 years with careful maintenance. Exceptional specimens can live for more than 8 years."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rummy-nose_tetra


"Lifespan:6-8 years"


https://www.fishkeepingworld.com/rummy-nose-tetra/


"Approximately 5-6 years."


https://en.aqua-fish.net/fish/rummy-nose-tetra1


"The average Rummy Nose Tetra lifespan is 5 to 6 years in captivity. However, some owners have managed to help these fish live up to 8 years (great genetics comes into play when exceeding 6 years)."


https://www.aquariumsource.com/rummy-nose-tetra/


The lifespan of Rummynose in wild:



"In the wild, Rummy Nose Tetra lives typically for around eight years. However, in captivity, they generally have a lifespan of about 5 to 6 years."
https://tetra-fish-care.com/rummy-no...ammus-bleheri/


So, no, the fish did not die of old-age.

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger15 View Post
If ihey have been fine for two years and suddenly drop dead one by one with no disease symptoms, then it appears to be death from old age. Rummy are mostly wild caught adult fish, and 2 more years in captivity is approaching life expectancy. In the wild, Rummy and Cardinal tetra are 1 to 2 year fish spreading and dying off with the expansion and contraction of flood.
Also, lets assume this species reached its maximum age at 2 years ( it doesn't, but lets just use it as a hypothetical) the likelihood that all would die of old age in the same week is highly improbable. Some would be stronger than others and would be susceptible to disease over a period of months, not days.

It is probable, however, that their immune systems are depleted from long-term exposure to improper water parameters and all were susceptible to whatever pathogen has killed them. . Long-term stress is the leading cause of disease in fish.


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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 11:35 PM
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Sorry about the fish but it's definitely a good idea to quarantine the new inhabitants before introducing them to the main tank or stuff like this could happen.

It's unsure what else could be done to the remaining stock except to keep the water clean and to monitor if they're feeding or not.
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