Very small widely avail fish for hard water - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-17-2020, 11:47 PM
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No one's mentioned Dwarf Raspora?
I've had a pair in a 6 gallon Fluval Edge with an Oil-Dri (baked clay) substrate for two years now, and tomorrow I'll add four more. They make the tank look huge and they are very peaceful. My pH runs around 8.0, haven't measured the hardness but a 65 gallon I have with the same substrate and water supply (a deep well) showed GH=18 and Alk (KH)=14 last week.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-18-2020, 12:33 AM
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If you’re going with basis or Dario, consider the black tiger badis(Dario sp Myanmar)...very colorful and “cichlid-like”...I love mine!
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-18-2020, 04:26 PM
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Try these: Least Killifish

https://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/Fact...?SpeciesID=852

I live in FL (where these are native), and they thrive in hard water. They also love densely planted tanks. The females release live young over time, instead of all at once. So... no population explosions. However, you can minimize population by only keeping females or males.

Mine are tiny, with my adult Females only being 1/2 to 3/4” and not getting any bigger. Males are even smaller. I have 9 in a 3 gallon planted, and all are happy and healthy in their home. They are peaceful and males do spar, but as long as there is vegetation to hide in, have done no harm to themselves or the females.

The females are fairly friendly after feeding them for several months, and will flock to the front of the tank when they see me coming. They were originally very shy, but had had little human contact beforehand.

These are an often overlooked and unappreciated little fish that are perfect for planted nano tanks.

🙂
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-18-2020, 08:42 PM
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Might look at glowlight Danio. Just over 1” long and will handle high hardness/PH just fine.



Get them and some bumblebee gobies for bottom dwellers.



There are a few of the blue eye rainbows that prefer water on harder side.
Pseudomugil connieae


You can read up on blue eyes here...
https://www.rainbowfish.angfaqld.org.au/Melano.htm
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-18-2020, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ichthyogeek View Post
You sell the babies of course to fund your hobby! Unlike with livebearers, with cichlid fry you have to put at least some modicum of effort into helping raise them. Scarlet badis tend to be males, so you'd know if you had a pair of them at least. Or...you could buy something like a Hara hara or H. jerdoni catfish to eat the fry at night?
Thanks. I want to keep things simple and now I'm beginning to think a pair of Scarlet Badis, or a pair of anything for pop control may not be a good idea . The catfish is very interesting.
This is getting much harder than I thought LOL.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantedRich View Post
A point that I have come around to is how different fish work for me. Some like livebearers are so easy that they have little value for resale. Everybody already has them if they want them. But cichlids are a group that take a bit more space, a bit more care in both selection and keeping but when they do have fry, it is far less trouble to get rid of excess. They will eat their own fry if that is what you want and set the tank for that or if you want to raise some to sell, you can set up the tank with more cover, let some grow out and they are often much more sought after, especially if you get something that is not often seen in your area.
Form a strictly price/value point, the cichlid will cost more to get but it will also be much more valuable when sold, they are also much less likely to die, in the meantime!
Kind of like the difference in raising rabbits which reproduce too fast versus raising cattle which are more difficult to raise but sure sell better for profit!
Neither will get you enough profit to bother but choose the one which fits your thinking best. Perhaps set up and cook off a few of the easy and then move on to something more fun and challenge?
I keep my fish, I do not let my fish keep me.
Excellent post. I totally agree. I don't like to mess around much with anything in my tanks. Want to keep fish and plants and not let them keep me. One of my two tanks has 18 neons. It's a 38 gal, simple low tech. I don't really do much other than feeding, dosing and 10% weekly water changes.

This thread has been an eye opener for me. I really don't want to raise the fry to sell. Just want to enjoy the tank. I'm beginning to think going hard water may not be a good idea and maybe I should consider flourite black, darker grey than onyx sand but it gives me more fish selection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pupfish View Post
For endlers, there's a natural strain called "Silverado" that is a plain but pretty silver fish. There's a multitude of colorful Endler strains created by crossbreeding with guppies, but there are a couple of less showy natural Endler strains. Also, after a few generations of breeding they tend to be less colorful unless you carefully select for color.

Be careful when shopping for badis, as they often sell only males because they're more colorful. All males would just fight, so you'd want a male and one or more females. Maybe someone here with experience breeding badis can tell us how much they breed, or if you get a family group they stop breeding. But you can always sell off/give away the males if they start to overpopulate

Keep us posted on what you end up getting
Those Silverados are nice. They sort of look like the Japanese Rice Fish. Something I really like but have never seen in any lfs.
Now that you mentioned it, I'm pretty sure all the Scarlet Badis I saw at the lfs are all males. After reading some of the replies I"m not sure if I should go with them, even if they had females. I may ditch plan to use onyx sand and keep my regualr 7.6 ph.

I will definitely keep you posted. It won't be until around Aug or so. Thanks for your input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckM View Post
No one's mentioned Dwarf Raspora?
I've had a pair in a 6 gallon Fluval Edge with an Oil-Dri (baked clay) substrate for two years now, and tomorrow I'll add four more. They make the tank look huge and they are very peaceful. My pH runs around 8.0, haven't measured the hardness but a 65 gallon I have with the same substrate and water supply (a deep well) showed GH=18 and Alk (KH)=14 last week.
Thanks for the suggestion. I've seen some of these small rasboras on youtube. They would actually be perfect. I also have the chili rasboras on my list. That's what I love about small fish. Makes the tank look bigger and they love to explore all the tight spots in heavily planted tanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newlinta View Post
If you’re going with basis or Dario, consider the black tiger badis(Dario sp Myanmar)...very colorful and “cichlid-like”...I love mine!
Thank you Newlinta. I may not be getting the badis anymore because of the involvement with fry. I only see the orange ones at the lfs and just realized they were all males.
The black tiger sure looks beautiful. Are those your fish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolsmith7878 View Post
Try these: Least Killifish

https://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/Fact...?SpeciesID=852

I live in FL (where these are native), and they thrive in hard water. They also love densely planted tanks. The females release live young over time, instead of all at once. So... no population explosions. However, you can minimize population by only keeping females or males.

Mine are tiny, with my adult Females only being 1/2 to 3/4” and not getting any bigger. Males are even smaller. I have 9 in a 3 gallon planted, and all are happy and healthy in their home. They are peaceful and males do spar, but as long as there is vegetation to hide in, have done no harm to themselves or the females.

The females are fairly friendly after feeding them for several months, and will flock to the front of the tank when they see me coming. They were originally very shy, but had had little human contact beforehand.

These are an often overlooked and unappreciated little fish that are perfect for planted nano tanks.

🙂
That's an awesome looking fish. Just the kind I like (size and looks). Thanks for suggesting them. I don't think I've ever seen them at the lfs but I don't normally look at all the tanks. Anther one for the list!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKS View Post
Might look at glowlight Danio. Just over 1” long and will handle high hardness/PH just fine.



Get them and some bumblebee gobies for bottom dwellers.



There are a few of the blue eye rainbows that prefer water on harder side.
Pseudomugil connieae


You can read up on blue eyes here...
https://www.rainbowfish.angfaqld.org.au/Melano.htm

Super! Thank you. I've had glowlight danios in the past and love them. They're already on my list.
I've always wanted bumblebee gobies but never got into them because my water is not hard enough. How many of them do you recommend for a 20 gal? Do they dig into the substrate?
I've also had those blue eyes rainbowfish before. Really nice fish!



Update... ok so after doing some thinking, I may go with some other substrate other than onyx sand. This would give me more fish to choose from and don't have to worry about fry or population control.
I think my list is now complete. Thanks everyone for the informative posts!
If I go with onyx sand, it will be for a bumblebee gobies only tank. I'm going to do some research on them tonight.

I'll keep you guys posted. Really excited to start this new tank in a month or two.
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-18-2020, 11:22 PM
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A couple thoughts on substrate, perhaps? I like to keep the tank to low thought/low stress, so changing out a whole tank to get a different look is pretty well out but I find I can change it a lot by simply adding to the existing, rather than dragging out and replacing. I like what I'm used to seeing and I'm a river/lakes guy, not surf and sand, so variety is the norm and that lets me just adjust the colors by adding more light or more dark as I feel I want at the time. size, shape and color of sub is all mixed but color changed the the portions of light or dark.
For a somewhat bland and calm fish, is the mosquito fish common in your area?
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-19-2020, 03:14 AM
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If you go for a one species tank, pea puffers are endlessly entertaining IMHO. They do well in moderate to hard water. When I had them, they were fine for awhile, but eventually started chomping on the fins of the angels & guppies. But they would be fine on their own. Especially if you've got other tanks with snails in them, they're perfect for feeding the little guys.....
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-21-2020, 09:25 PM
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I have very hard water naturally (ph 8.2, kH 17 and gh 20+) and have been able to keep espei rasbora for years, they’re at least 5 years old now, though I would say my numbers started to dwindle on them around the 3 year mark. They’re a pretty and fun fish, and decently chill, though not a tight schooler in my experience, since they feel pretty secure in my setup.

I also got a good deal on some black neon tetras, which are significantly younger (maybe a year?) and while I haven’t had as much luck with them, I think it’s because they weren’t in great shape when I got them. The numbers stabilized after the first month or so and since then they’ve been doing well.

Both of these fish I got from fairly local sources, if traveling at least an hour counts as local! And even though they’re not specifically a “hard water” fish, they’ve been doing great, good behavior and healthy lifespans.

Honestly, I think you’d have luck with most fish you would try, even with harder water.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-21-2020, 10:30 PM
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Oryzias woworae, Daisy's ricefish - small, chill & very attractive, plus I've seen them at big-box stores. They bred in my soft tap water, but they'd be happier in harder, more basic water.



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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-22-2020, 12:15 AM
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There is a whole bunch of small Tanganyikan cichlid you can keep in hard water. They tend to be aggressive to their own kind, but generally don’t bother non cichlid.
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-23-2020, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantedRich View Post
A couple thoughts on substrate, perhaps? I like to keep the tank to low thought/low stress, so changing out a whole tank to get a different look is pretty well out but I find I can change it a lot by simply adding to the existing, rather than dragging out and replacing. I like what I'm used to seeing and I'm a river/lakes guy, not surf and sand, so variety is the norm and that lets me just adjust the colors by adding more light or more dark as I feel I want at the time. size, shape and color of sub is all mixed but color changed the the portions of light or dark.
For a somewhat bland and calm fish, is the mosquito fish common in your area?
True, I don't like to mess with my tanks after set up. If I make changes I also do minor ones. I'm thinking about adding some large pebbles over the sand substrate in my 38 gal.
This 20 gal will be a whole new set up so I've been doing very careful planning. I still have to purchase the tank and stand.

I like that mosquito fish! I'll have to take a closer look at the livebearer section of the lfs because I normally just look at the fish without checking labels, and I know I would have assumed the mosquito fish was a guppy if I saw it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pupfish View Post
If you go for a one species tank, pea puffers are endlessly entertaining IMHO. They do well in moderate to hard water. When I had them, they were fine for awhile, but eventually started chomping on the fins of the angels & guppies. But they would be fine on their own. Especially if you've got other tanks with snails in them, they're perfect for feeding the little guys.....
I had considered them but decided not to look further into pea puffers because they're picky eaters and the whole teeth growth issue. I really don't want to deal with raising snails to feed them. But who knows, I won't have the tank until around August and I may change my mind. Thanks for your input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyMuffin View Post
I have very hard water naturally (ph 8.2, kH 17 and gh 20+) and have been able to keep espei rasbora for years, they’re at least 5 years old now, though I would say my numbers started to dwindle on them around the 3 year mark. They’re a pretty and fun fish, and decently chill, though not a tight schooler in my experience, since they feel pretty secure in my setup.

I also got a good deal on some black neon tetras, which are significantly younger (maybe a year?) and while I haven’t had as much luck with them, I think it’s because they weren’t in great shape when I got them. The numbers stabilized after the first month or so and since then they’ve been doing well.

Both of these fish I got from fairly local sources, if traveling at least an hour counts as local! And even though they’re not specifically a “hard water” fish, they’ve been doing great, good behavior and healthy lifespans.

Honestly, I think you’d have luck with most fish you would try, even with harder water.
That's what I've been reading around the net just recently. Soft water fish in hard water (especially captive bred) is usually fine but to never put hard water fish in soft water. This is interesting, which means I can still go with the onyx sand .
I'm very interested in the tiny rasboras normally used in nano tanks.

I really like the black neons. Almost got them last year when stocking my 38 gal but went with regular neons instead because the blacks reach over 2".
Not sure if it would work in the 20 gal I'm setting up. It's going to be an overgrown jungle. I might get a small school of them for my 38 because the neons I have now feel comfy and safe, some of them are being really nasty to each other. There's one male that thinks he own's half the tank. Maybe adding these larger black neons will lessen aggression on the normal neons. Thanks for your input!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpet View Post
Oryzias woworae, Daisy's ricefish - small, chill & very attractive, plus I've seen them at big-box stores. They bred in my soft tap water, but they'd be happier in harder, more basic water.
Wow! Ok, I'm going to ask next time I'm there if they have ricefish. I've always wanted ricefish but don't think I've seen them. But I don't have time to check every tank. Now that I think about it. I spend the least amount of time in the hard water fish section while shopping! Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger15 View Post
There is a whole bunch of small Tanganyikan cichlid you can keep in hard water. They tend to be aggressive to their own kind, but generally don’t bother non cichlid.
Don't they need some salt in their water? I think the onyx sand only add calcium carbonates. I wouldn't mind a little one to go along with whatever school of fish I get.
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