fish vanishing - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-11-2020, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Question fish vanishing

I have a 30g low tech planted tank with some cardinals, lemon tetras, cories, some ghost shrimps and an adonis pleco. In january I had a couple of rams that were doing really nice (no signs of disease of any kind), and suddenly they just vanished. That time I blamed the shrimp (as they really took over the tank) - I started with 1 couple last year and in january I had almost 30. I suspected that they could be from a local species that attack fish. I removed almost all of them.

A month later I bought an adult male krib and 2 angelfishes. They were doing fine (the angelfishes doubled their size). Last week I noticed that the krib vanished. No corpse, no parts, nothing. One friend here in Brazil suspected that this pleco could be from an onivore species, attacking fishes that sleeps on the bottom during the night.

Do you think there could be the case?

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-11-2020, 05:31 PM
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I don't know of any ghost shrimp that could catch fish to actually kill it-- especially cichlids.
Also, Ive never heard of any type of pleco ( no matter what size) killing fish while they were sleeping.

The issue is most likely illness kills fish and the other occupants in tank- shrimp and fish- clean up the corpses. This is very common.
Also, do you have a lid on tank? Cichlids can jump out of tank if there is no lid in cases of territorial aggression and during spawning.


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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 02:08 AM
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Do you have any cats around? Our cat routinely goes fishing in the goldfish tank. When the numbers get low, I go to the pet store and buy another bag of feeder goldfish to bring the numbers back up. I've covered the whole she was using in the hood, but she still manages to snag a few occasionally.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
I don't know of any ghost shrimp that could catch fish to actually kill it-- especially cichlids.

Also, Ive never heard of any type of pleco ( no matter what size) killing fish while they were sleeping.



The issue is most likely illness kills fish and the other occupants in tank- shrimp and fish- clean up the corpses. This is very common.

Also, do you have a lid on tank? Cichlids can jump out of tank if there is no lid in cases of territorial aggression and during spawning.
I use to think just like you, until a friend here had a pleco that "sucked" a discus (didn't kill it, though). After this post, I talked to a friend that owns a fish store that advised me to take the adonis out, as it needs a larger tank and can be aggressive to other fish that lives in the bottom. After that, I found this article: http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/wiki/Acanthicus_adonis

About the shrimp: here in Brazil we have a species that are extremely aggressive (Macrobrachium carcinus, known as 'pitú') and when they're young they look like a common ghost shrimp. Some fish stores often sells pitús as ghost shrimps. I was suspecting that it was my case, but later I discovered that the one I have is the Macrobrachium jellski, that is pacific.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit1200 View Post
Do you have any cats around? Our cat routinely goes fishing in the goldfish tank. When the numbers get low, I go to the pet store and buy another bag of feeder goldfish to bring the numbers back up. I've covered the whole she was using in the hood, but she still manages to snag a few occasionally.
No, just the aquarium for now.

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Last edited by Darkblade48; 05-13-2020 at 09:05 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by edustarling View Post
I use to think just like you, until a friend here had a pleco that "sucked" a discus (didn't kill it, though). After this post, I talked to a friend that owns a fish store that advised me to take the adonis out, as it needs a larger tank and can be aggressive to other fish that lives in the bottom. After that, I found this article: Adonis Pleco (Acanthicus adonis) - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki

About the shrimp: here in Brazil we have a species that are extremely aggressive (Macrobrachium carcinus, known as 'pitú') and when they're young they look like a common ghost shrimp. Some fish stores often sells pitús as ghost shrimps. I was suspecting that it was my case, but later I discovered that the one I have is the Macrobrachium jellski, that is pacific.


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Yeah, Ive heard about not putting plecos and discus together- but, in 18 years of keeping discus and several varieties of plecos together I have never seen a pleco suck on my discus. Nor any indications of it happening. Nor have I heard of it happening with anyone I know who have kept them together for years. I have heard warnings on the internet.

You had asked about a pleco killing fish. Again, I have never heard of a pleco of any type killing a fish.

As far as shrimp, glad you didnt have the "killer variety" .
Cant imagine a reputable fish store selling that type of shrimp and not telling their customers that there is a possibility that they can kill fish. Especially a cichlid. Wow-- that is amazing.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 05:22 PM
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@edustarling

I have witnessed a pleco killing/eating rosy minnows in my own aquarium. It does happen.

And fish can "vanish". A crew of ramshorns/MTS can make a molly disappear in 24 hours, and if you have other scavengers helping it can happen overnight. Also check around the tank for a dried up corpse if you don't have a tight lid.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 05:35 PM
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I have witnessed a pleco killing/eating rosy minnows in my own aquarium. It does happen.

Wow! What kind of Pleco was it?


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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 05:42 PM
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Wow! What kind of Pleco was it?

A common pleco
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 05:48 PM
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A common pleco
Fascinating-- never heard of such a thing.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-03-2020, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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A brazilian youtube channel posted a video talking about it a couple of weeks ago:

(
+- 40sec)

Sorry that it's in Portuguese, but they got it filmed

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-03-2020, 08:37 PM
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Getting information from U-tube is like getting breakfast from the dump! Some things you find will be good and some not so good, so we need to look really close before we believe what we find there!
For starters on this fish missing discussion we should probably start with what we do know before going for the extremes that might happen.
So most of us that have been in the game long have certain knowledge that fish often die and they do not take long to disappear. In a planted tank , they disappear much quicker, so I see no reason to thin the fish are not dying (it happens! ) and nature has recycled the body before it is missed.
There may be times and places where really odd things happen but that should not be the first thing we think of when something so common as a fish going missing is noted.
My first thought when my fish die is to look at what I did wrong and it usually is something pretty normal like I was sloppy with maintenance! I've killed fish in lots of ways but never had a pleco do it!
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-04-2020, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
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Getting information from U-tube is like getting breakfast from the dump! Some things you find will be good and some not so good, so we need to look really close before we believe what we find there!
This was not a random video provided by searching terms, this channel is well known here. In general I agree with you.

Quote:
For starters on this fish missing discussion we should probably start with what we do know before going for the extremes that might happen.
So most of us that have been in the game long have certain knowledge that fish often die and they do not take long to disappear. In a planted tank , they disappear much quicker, so I see no reason to thin the fish are not dying (it happens! ) and nature has recycled the body before it is missed.
Been there, done that .

In this case I found out later what happened (the pair of angels outgrew the tank and got aggressive, but I only noticed it observing the tank late at night with the lights off - I had to donate the angels, I still like them a lot but the tank is better now without them ). The point here about the pleco is that some species are common near here (I live in South America) and a breeder alerted me that some species had special taste on fish mucus. I was trying to figure out if the one I have is one of this.

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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-04-2020, 03:04 PM
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Yes, I will agree that there are various fish who will try to suck the slime off other fish. It's a part of keeping discus, I believe? But that also often means a fish has to be somewhat weak to stay long enough for a pleco to get stuck on very long and it would seem pretty rare for it to occur to the point of a pleco rasping away the whole fish! They tend to do damage to plants but then plants are slow moving and not alert at all.
My point is that it is quite common for small fish to disappear and never be found.
When searching for the cause, I start with the normal and often find the cause there before moving to the extremely rare things we might read about.
One of the points of critical thinking is that we need to look at what might motivate different news sources. So how does a U-tube keep the viewers coming back and the money coming in? One way is to provide news that other sources do not and that takes lots of time, money, and effort. Or the simple way is to provide news that is extreme and not provided at other sources, even if it presses really hard on being true!
If a site is long term successful, it has to do some things others are not doing and that leaves us trying to figure which way they are going with their info.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-06-2020, 02:55 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the long and thorough response. I'm on the hobby for a long time (although always making my mistakes and learning from them) and before I posted here I'd certified that nothing unusual happened (temperature, pH, etc). Feeding those days were normal, water changes and maintenance normal as well.

As I wrote first on this thread, first the rams were gone. Healthy, eating well, and then gone. As I was at summer vacations here (january) I wasn't paying much attention to the tank. The only unusual thing about it was a horde of ghost shrimps. As here in Brazil there's a species that hunts small and medium fish and when juvenile is very similar to a normal ghost shrimp, I put the blame on them. Took almost 30 shrimp from the tank (each one 1 inch). After that I put a couple of very small angels that doubled their size in a matter of weeks and a male krib. Then, the krib was gone. The other suspect was the adonis pleco, but later I discovered that it must have been the angels. Now everything is fine (no more angels, and a new pair of rams is living there very well)


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