Guppy dying what is killing fish? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-26-2020, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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What is the water volume of the tank?
20g tall
How long has the tank been running?
10 months
Does it have a filter?
Aqua tech 10-20 and 2 sponge filters
Does it have a heater?
100 watt heater
What is the water temperature?
74-76F
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
Male tequila sunrise guppies and ramshorn snails.
25 guppies and 40 snails
Maintenance
How often do you change the water?
Once a week
How much of the water do you change?
50%
What do you use to treat your water?
Prime
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?
Vacuum gets done every 2-3 weeks as needed.

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
Yes
What do you use to test the water?
Api test kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite:0ppm
Nitrate:40ppm before water change and 20ppm after
pH: 7.4-7.6

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?
4-5 times a week
How much do you feed your fish?
Whatever they can eat if flakes in 1-2 mins. Repashy gel in 24 hours
What brand of food do you feed your fish?
Omega One flakes and Repashy community plus
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods?
1-2 times a month freeze dried blood worms
Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?
6 months since he was born in fish room
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?
Today and moved to hospital tank
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
Lethargic, heavy breathing, dropsy, laying on side, red/bloody bottom
Have you started any treatment for the illness?
No
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?
No birthed him in my fishroom
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? Not doing things healthy fish do.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-26-2020, 01:01 AM
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Thanks for all the thorough information.

You didn't notice any symptoms at all up until today? This looks very progressed, unusual that it wouldn't show you any symptoms up to this point.
have you looked at the other fish to see if seeing any lethargy? All eating? Any white/red feces?

Looks like two possibilities with the reddened are near vent- possibly nematodes or internal bacterial infection. If this is the only fish sick, however, I would suspect the fish had a weak immune system and has contracted a secondary bacterial infection.


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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-26-2020, 05:13 AM Thread Starter
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I check my tanks every day, but with upwards of 2,000 guppies, I might miss something.
All the other fish in this tank seem okay and are eating well.
There are some with some poop that is more red than I've noticed in recent months, but I've been feeding Omega One color max flakes that are red and I honestly thought it could be that.

I have medicated flake food that has fenbendazole in it so should I use that?? If it is nematodes that is.

If it is bacterial how would I know and what should I treat with?
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-26-2020, 05:24 AM
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It appears to be too late for this fish, when they are laying on their side like that and have dropsy it is usually late-stage and organs shutting down.

One fish sick like this is no cause for worry. It may just be a weak fish.
Nematodes look different than reddened feces from food. You would know the difference if you saw it.
But, that said, if you see that your fish are looking thin and wasted, have multiple deaths with symptoms seen here than I would treat. But, doesn't sound like you are there at this point.


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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
It appears to be too late for this fish, when they are laying on their side like that and have dropsy it is usually late-stage and organs shutting down.

One fish sick like this is no cause for worry. It may just be a weak fish.
Nematodes look different than reddened feces from food. You would know the difference if you saw it.

But, that said, if you see that your fish are looking thin and wasted, have multiple deaths with symptoms seen here than I would treat. But, doesn't sound like you are there at this point.
I just did weekly water change of 50% and I got most of free reaining detritus from sand. If it turns out to be bacterial what would I use?

Would the stuff I have attached be okay if needed. If more fish do get sick I just want to be ready even if I think it's an isolated incident.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 02:00 PM
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The drug you have linked is an antimicrobial, not an antibiotic. It is most effective for mild to moderate external (aerobic) bacterial infections ( sores, fin-rot, mouth rot), but not so effective against internal (anaerobic) bacteria of the gut-- like aeromonas bacteria.
Sulfa drugs also do best in more acidic environments, ph 7.0 and lower. Above 7.0, there are better options. Certainly when aeromonas is suspected.

If you continue to have issues I would use kanamycin. Active ingredient in Seachem Kanaplex. Or, a much more cost effective route is to order 100% kanamycin from Angelsplus.com or Jehmco.com.


Edit: I was unfamiliar with the second drug of this combination Sulfa/trimethoprim. It looks like both these drugs on their own are antimicrobials, but when combined work as an antibiotic. I found this in the following paper and have the quote referenced here:

Instead, trimethoprim is nearly always used in combination with sulfamethoxazole for synergistic effects. This antibacterial also possesses antimalarial properties. When used alone, trimethoprim is bacteriostatic, but it is bactericidal when combined with sulfonamides.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics...e/trimethoprim

There is very little on trimethoprim in relation to fish beyond the little information given by this drug manufacturer. So, after all this, not sure about this drug and its effectiveness in this situation.


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Last edited by Discusluv; 01-27-2020 at 02:18 PM. Reason: more info
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 02:55 PM
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Also, consider stress levels. Weakened fish will have difficulty resisting and dealing with disease. For example; Guppies tend to like harder water. What are your GH and TDS readings? Do you have good surface rippling to maximize gas exchange? Any other environmental stress possibilities?
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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My GH is 10 and TDS is 200 on average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
The drug you have linked is an antimicrobial, not an antibiotic. It is most effective for mild to moderate external (aerobic) bacterial infections ( sores, fin-rot, mouth rot), but not so effective against internal (anaerobic) bacteria of the gut-- like aeromonas bacteria.
Sulfa drugs also do best in more acidic environments, ph 7.0 and lower. Above 7.0, there are better options. Certainly when aeromonas is suspected.

If you continue to have issues I would use kanamycin. Active ingredient in Seachem Kanaplex. Or, a much more cost effective route is to order 100% kanamycin from Angelsplus.com or Jehmco.com.


Edit: I was unfamiliar with the second drug of this combination Sulfa/trimethoprim. It looks like both these drugs on their own are antimicrobials, but when combined work as an antibiotic. I found this in the following paper and have the quote referenced here:

Instead, trimethoprim is nearly always used in combination with sulfamethoxazole for synergistic effects. This antibacterial also possesses antimalarial properties. When used alone, trimethoprim is bacteriostatic, but it is bactericidal when combined with sulfonamides.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics...e/trimethoprim

There is very little on trimethoprim in relation to fish beyond the little information given by this drug manufacturer. So, after all this, not sure about this drug and its effectiveness in this situation.
Thanks for the info! I'll get some kanamycin just in case. I thought I read something like you posted but will read it anyway to keep learning. When things are going so well I tend to forget to keep up with knowing what to do if things go sideways. I know the basic things, but sometimes it is something I haven't seen before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanna View Post
Also, consider stress levels. Weakened fish will have difficulty resisting and dealing with disease. For example; Guppies tend to like harder water. What are your GH and TDS readings? Do you have good surface rippling to maximize gas exchange? Any other environmental stress possibilities?
Yes I have good gas exchange with a hang on back and two sponges. I'm not sure or any environmental stress. What would you be thinking of?

Last edited by Darkblade48; 01-29-2020 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-29-2020, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwilly07 View Post
Yes I have good gas exchange with a hang on back and two sponges. I'm not sure or any environmental stress. What would you be thinking of?
You answered osmotic pressure issues (GH and TDS).
Sufficient O2 is covered.
Other things might be temperature shocks, damage during transfer, etc.

Here is a discussion that covers it:

https://www.liveaquaria.com/article/88/?aid=88
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for link!!!

Fish died, but at least others are healthy and don't seem to be affected. My other 16 tanks are great at the moment....knock on wood!

Last edited by Darkblade48; 02-01-2020 at 07:25 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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