need help diagnosing fish problem - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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need help diagnosing fish problem

I need help diagnosing the problem, thinking it's columnaris, here's a couple of pics of my green swordtail
a little history, I've tried Tetra Lifeguard(1 Round), then API General Cure/Erythromycin combo(1 round), then Kanaplex/ Furan 2 Combo( 1 Round but forgot the 5th day dose of Kanaplex/Furan 2, Yikes!) That's nearly if not more than 2 weeks of meds but doing all that hasn't corrected the problem completely. Water parameters are good



swordtail still has that whitish washed out color at the base of the dorsal fin, also on the body near where the tail section starts and fin rot. the "white patches so to say" doesn't look cottony/fuzzy at all. I was thinking internal tissue problems but what do I know being new to fish keeping. As if algae wasn't a hard problem as it is, lol.


pictures also depicts white poo, it had sections of dark color after the fish let it loose. And he was about to eat it that poo but I got my trusty syringe to suck it out of the tank before he ate it. Days ago he ate a thick white poo of his own, Yikes!


Need help! it's been 2 days from the last medication, Should I do a 2nd round of Kanaplex/Furan 2 combo?

Last edited by Pocho; 11-03-2019 at 09:35 PM. Reason: wording
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 09:19 PM
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What are your water parameters? They "are good" tells me nothing.
What size tank? What other fish/numbers?
How many fish have died? Did this start from an introduction of new fish or in a well-established tank with no new introductions?

While treating did you take out all chemical medias from filter? Stop Co2, turn off UV sterilizers, and stop fertilizing ( if applicable).
Did you do water changes between doses?

This looks like columnaris- no doubt. The white feces sounds like stomach lining due to illness.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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my Neon Tetra is the swordtail's buddy and practically follows him around the tank, lol. Neon has tiny white spots and the caudal fin(?) fin first bone structure is white other than that Neon looks chunky, swims normal, eats normal, etc. as in the likes of the swordtail. I'm not in front of the tank enough to witness what the Neon poop color is.




should I be dosing API Fungus Cure
or Hikari Ich-X
to try to cure both the swordtail and neon tetra?
or a 2nd round of Furan 2/Kanaplex where I finished the 1st round days ago?

?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
What are your water parameters? They "are good" tells me nothing.
What size tank? What other fish/numbers?
How many fish have died? Did this start from an introduction of new fish or in a well-established tank with no new introductions?

While treating did you take out all chemical medias from filter? Stop Co2, turn off UV sterilizers, and stop fertilizing ( if applicable).
Did you do water changes between doses?

This looks like columnaris- no doubt. The white feces sounds like stomach lining due to illness.

okay, this 13gallon tank was planted but fishless cycled and I waited one week after cycle to add the swordtail and neon tetra that I already had from a 5 gallon tank.
Ammonia, Nitrates 0ppm now but it went off with some meds I used but it's back to normal with ~ 5ppm Nitrates. Same tap water used in both tanks so I assume ph which is ~7.4, kH 3, gH4-5 and tap minerals are the same.

Before meds I removed carbon, left sponge filter, added air bubbler, did water changes when called for with Prime and with the Kanaplex/Furan combo I gave tank an xtra dose of Prime because of the tiny spike of Ammo/Nitrite.
No co2 as it's a low tech tank, only 2 fishes, the swordtail and neon tetra.

Last edited by Darkblade48; 11-04-2019 at 10:58 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 10:32 PM
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Okay, the mini-cycle may have complicated the healing process.
I would treat again with the kanamycin and nitrofurazone ( active ingredient in API Furan 2) for one more treatment.
Make sure to ( and this is very important!) to do a 25% water change before each dose of medication. I am thinking that this was not done enough and the medications were off-set by organics in the water.

Have you done large water change or used carbon after treating with last medications? If not, do this before treating with new round of meds/.
What is the temperature of aquarium? Higher heat spreads bacteria quickly, you may need to turn down heat.
Are the fish both eating?
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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thank you DiscusLov, I've done 25-35% wc's between rounds of different medicines and followed the directions on Furan2 of doing a 25% wc after the 2nd dose on the 3rd day just prior to dosing the 3rd application of Furan2.


I'll start the 2nd round tomorrow morning, I was thinking of doing another round of Kanaplex/Furan 2 as it seemed after the 1st round the white patches improved a tiny bit(seemed to have stopped the white patch growth at the very least) but thought it would clear up slowly without the 2nd round. On a side note, that white patch is what started me to start meds and that white patch slowly grew from one side of the dorsal fin to the other during the usage of the LifeGuard and Erythromycin/General Cure combo.
I've had the swordtail since the 1st day of setting up the tank not knowing anything and a month later added the neon tetra. 18months and I'd hate to lose either one.' Both are active/eating well, always looking for food, even seeing the neon following the swordtail waiting for the poo but the swordtail rules. The swordtail had a red stringy poo once that I saw of and was thinking camallanus worms! But I haven't see it since, Yikes! maybe intestinal bleeding in the poo?

my plants are taking a beating, I can see what looks like to be horizontal cracking of the leaves if you will and plant leaves dying. The only plant to be doing well is the Crypt Wendtii for now.

The tiny whitish spots on the neon tetra fins is bothering me quite a bit. I guess it's patience in trying to clear up the supposed columnaris then treat for ich/or velvet whatevers living on Neon.

DiscusLuv, am I to do water changes everyday before adding the Furan2? The direction states to do a wc between the 4 doses(inbetween the 2nd 3rd dosage). And Kanaplex directions does not state to do water changes at all between dosages which is every 2 days, 3 dosages max.?

Last edited by Darkblade48; 11-04-2019 at 10:58 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 11:27 PM
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Do water changes as directed on package but do a larger one than before because last time had issues with rising ammonia/nitrites.
But, I would monitor your aquarium daily since you are having issues with water quality. If at any time you see levels rising again will need to do an additional water change and add back medicine took out.
Any detectable ammonia/nitrite experienced by an already sick fish will put them back and not allow them to heal.

The neon has been in tank for how long? When is the last time added plants, fish, or invertebrates to this tank?
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
Do water changes as directed on package but do a larger one than before because last time had issues with rising ammonia/nitrites.
But, I would monitor your aquarium daily since you are having issues with water quality. If at any time you see levels rising again will need to do an additional water change and add back medicine took out.
Any detectable ammonia/nitrite experienced by an already sick fish will put them back and not allow them to heal.

The neon has been in tank for how long? When is the last time added plants, fish, or invertebrates to this tank?

Neon been with the swordtail for 17months from far back in the original 5gallon tank, they both went into the 13gallon at the same time, which was about 4-5 weeks ago about a week after cycling the tank. No new plants since over a month ago and I don't have invertebrates at all.
Today's pics: it's hard to take a close up pic, but there's a lot of tiny specs on it's fins. Fishes were in the 5gallon tank @ ~79f degrees as it had a cooler. They are now in the 13gallon with temperature ~ in the 86+-90f+ range during the day as it has no cooler. Our season is changing so the night temps could go into the high 70's to mid 80's for lows







Last edited by Pocho; 11-04-2019 at 01:22 AM. Reason: added more info
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 02:21 AM
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There is no chance of Ich then- the fish have had no exposure.
Those temperatures are tough when fish are trying to get over bacterial infection. Much too warm.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 03:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
There is no chance of Ich then- the fish have had no exposure.
Those temperatures are tough when fish are trying to get over bacterial infection. Much too warm.
I will install a themometer while I'm at it

I've read of stress ich and some reads seems to say its of a different nature, me myself idk, if it is stress ick wouldn't ick medicine rid it? 1 neon tetra could be a lot of stress on her. hmmm, they say it "could" be cysts

these neon tetras seems to be very sensitive ones from what some mentioned. NTD, yikes!

Last edited by Pocho; 11-04-2019 at 02:24 PM. Reason: double post in comment
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
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I will install a themometer while I'm at it

I've read of stress ich and some reads seems to say its of a different nature, me myself idk, if it is stress ick wouldn't ick medicine rid it? 1 neon tetra could be a lot of stress on her. hmmm, they say it "could" be cysts

these neon tetras seems to be very sensitive ones from what some mentioned. NTD, yikes!
In photo I can see no signs of Ich on neon.

Ive never heard of "stress Ich". Can you link me to where you have read of it being "of a different nature" than the Ich we routinely see.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
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sorry Double post
but my plants have taken a beating, majority of Water sprite, and marsilea have browned and looks to be dying. Yikes

I've reread your post and the white may not be internal worms but due to is illness? I'm going to stop the Focus/General Cure pellet feed for now

Last edited by Pocho; 11-07-2019 at 04:38 AM. Reason: edited wording
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 03:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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In photo I can see no signs of Ich on neon.

Ive never heard of "stress Ich". Can you link me to where you have read of it being "of a different nature" than the Ich we routinely see.
I posted pics of it above, it's very hard to see but if you look closely on pics 2-4 of the neon it's there as I can see it on my screen, it's tiny white dots on her dorsal fins and tail fin.
People touch on it at times, Aquarium Coop Cory just hinted about it on one of his video's and I've seen others mention it but no one really put their finger on it. Heard the Neon white spot could be NTD/cyst. ON YouTube search, search for Aquarium Coop Ich and Cory has a video on how he treats Ich, he mentions "stress" ich and what "he" thinks or doesn't think it is.



I started the 2nd "delayed" round of Kanamycin/Furan 2 on Monday, today his tail fin looked much more ragged and lost quite a bit of it. The saddleback seemed to have gotten smaller, there's still "white" where the dorsal fin meets his body. BUT I don't think my swordtail tail is going to make, he is very very restless this eve darting around and hitting the glass, sponge filer from watching him for a minute. I can't bear to watch him. Hope he's still alive tomorrow morning. My Neon Tetra looks the same so... .

Monday added the Kanamycin/Furan 2, Tuesday added Furan2, today(Wednesday) did a 25% water change as water parameter looked good and added Kanamycin/Jungle Fungus Clear as a replacement for Furan 2. When I saw the tail rot had gotten worse today, I figured I would change it up a bit with Jungle Fungus Clear instead of Furan 2, as it has the same med as Furan 2 + Potassium Dichromate.

Bump: I also noticed today that his dorsal fin "rays", the spines(?) of the dorsal fin has darks spots/lenghts so to say but it's not clamped down. I've also gotten Focus and have mixed some General Cure with tiny pellets they eat to see if it clears up his "white" poo. I'm really med'n these 2 up.

As I've stated prior, I did a round of Tetra LifeGuard, a round of Erythromycin/General Cure combo and am on the 2nd round of Kanamycin/Furan2(Jungle Fungus Clear) combo and just tried one feeding of Focus/General Cure soaked mini Hikari pellets.

Last edited by Pocho; 11-07-2019 at 04:20 AM. Reason: edited wording
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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update on swordtail, fins aren't clamped, saddleback clearing up, tail fin disintegrating and I hope this is due to the Jungle Fungus Clear med that's clearing up the dead tissue.
He's less active near the top or bottom of tank and at times he wiggles really fast and looks to somersault. It's clearing up but the side-effects or he's about to expire, idk.

I'm torn but it best to be completing the round which will take another 3 days
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocho View Post
update on swordtail, fins aren't clamped, saddleback clearing up, tail fin disintegrating and I hope this is due to the Jungle Fungus Clear med that's clearing up the dead tissue.
He's less active near the top or bottom of tank and at times he wiggles really fast and looks to somersault. It's clearing up but the side-effects or he's about to expire, idk.

I'm torn but it best to be completing the round which will take another 3 days
Regardless if the fish expires or not, should always complete treatment with antibiotics where fish have been ill in a tank.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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update, swordtail not looking so well and not eating well either.
his sword has practically disintegrated and his tail fin looks worse than yesterday.
there seems to be a brownish looking coloring on the tail end of his body too. He really looks bad and beatup, just disintegrating overnight

Neon Tetra still looks oKay.
I'll be dispensing the 3rd final dose of Kanamycin today.
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