CPDs shimming/eratic - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-12-2019, 05:32 AM Thread Starter
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CPDs shimming/eratic

Would like some input. I have had my fish/shrimp/snails for a while now (several months). Its a 40B tank. Link in my sig with relatively recent pics.

Did a water change yesterday like I usually don on thursday or friday. About 30-40percent. Everyone looked great. This morning no issues. Got home about 5pm and fed the fish since I was a little late. From what I recall everyone looked great, all came out to eat as usual.

About 30 min or so after eating I noticed one of my CPDs darting erratically and kind of shimming and twisting its body. Noticed a couple of the others kind of shimming as well. I have 10 of them. The female who was really displaying this behavior looked absolutely fine/perfect. After a little while she had lost some color but no bloating, no fungus. Breathing harder then usual. The other two doing the shimmy looked perfect full of color and everything.

I can only think of two things
-I didnt wash my hands when I got home like I normally do and could have gotten some oil or something on them.
-I just started feeding new life spectrum two days ago. They generally eat first before it gets to anyone else. Everyone in the tank can eat it however and do.

Tested ammonia and nitrates real quick 0 and 20. My water comes out of well at about 5-10 nitrates so thats pretty normal parameters for me.

I removed the purigen from the canister and dropped in two bags of activated charcoal. About the only thing I can do as I am leaving in a few hours for the weekend.

Any ideas? Not sure if changing diet can cause some swim bladder issues. Figured if I had contaminated the tank with something the RCS, OTOs, false juliis, snails, or emerald tetras would have shown some sort of indicator as these are all pretty sensitive fish/inverts.

Bump: Wanted to add,

My water change was done exactly like I always do it. Temp match within 1-2F, same exact amount of equilibrium/ferts/phosphates/touch of prime (well water but add a touch of prime just because).

Feeding tonight- Dropped in 1 carnivore pellet for the cats, a small square of repashy soilent green for the shrimps (only ones that like it), sprinkled in some new life spectrum probiotic pellets (kind of crush these up for the little fish). This feeding regime is typical of a evening feeding with substitutions here and there.


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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 03:31 AM Thread Starter
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@Discusluv any chance you have recommendation for internal parasite treatment that is shrimp friendly?

Just got home, lost a few CPDs and maybe embers, juliis are acting funny. One CPD had a white poop string going on. The colors and such look fine but looks like wasting away, a few on bottom of tank, arching back and shimming.

Are there any fast acting internal parasites, I did get some plants a couple weeks ago now that I think about it. Petco started putting fish in with there plant tank.

Any help appreciated.


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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 04:20 AM
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I would say that the fastest to cause death and most common ( and likeliest in this circumstance) internal parasite would be a protozoan/flagellate infection.

I would use metronidazole (active ingredient in Seachem Metroplex).

I wasnt sure about the safety with shrimp so looked up and found the following article that appears reputable. This source states that metronidazole is safe with shrimps/invertebrates .
https://skfaquatics.com/forum/articl...aquariums-r95/


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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 04:28 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you, worth a shot. Hopefully I can find it tomorrow and some of the guys are still kicking.

Well no one around me has that particular med so picked up some API general cure which has the same active ingredient. Started the first dose. Think I lost a total of 3 CPDs, only found one but with the very large false amanos there is a tendency for dead things to not last long.

Treating my 10g as well just to be sure. Plus the one pack of general cure treats both the 40g and 10g twice per instructions so worked out I guess.


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Last edited by Darkblade48; 10-16-2019 at 03:34 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Quint View Post
Well no one around me has that particular med so picked up some API general cure which has the same active ingredient. Started the first dose. Think I lost a total of 3 CPDs, only found one but with the very large false amanos there is a tendency for dead things to not last long.

Treating my 10g as well just to be sure. Plus the one pack of general cure treats both the 40g and 10g twice per instructions so worked out I guess.
Thats fine. I suggested the metro because the praziquantel not needed and dont like to use meds that are unnecessary; but, if thats what you have available to you that will work just fine.
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
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Thats fine. I suggested the metro because the praziquantel not needed and dont like to use meds that are unnecessary; but, if thats what you have available to you that will work just fine.

Once again thanks for the suggestions. I thought about ordering the other online but the quickest I could get it was Thursday or Friday. With the way some of the remaining CPDs are acting doubted I would have that long.



Odd thing is the 3 chili rasboras are showing absolutely no symptoms, the embers and corys are showing some distress from what I can tell however the CPDs are definitely the worse off. The OTOs I am not sure about, can only see one so I have no idea if the others are alive or just hiding. The one looks pretty normal. Usually 3 or so are out and about. Only problem with a planted decorated tank - cant catch any specific animal without tearing everything up and finding stuff is a challenge.


Kind of curious if my heater failure which allowed temp to get down to 68-69F caused to much stress for the CPDs so they succumbed to any internal parasites they were carrying. I now have thermometers to see what temp is besides at water changes to keep a closer look at things. The temp could of been low for up to a week as I always take temps to match the water change temp.


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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 01:09 AM
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A temp drop can definitely be a stressor that could allow this protozoa a foothold. I have heard that fish can carry this parasite in their gut without issue as long as they are healthy and not stressed. Sort of in a stasis situation. But, when a stressor happens the parasite gets that foothold it needs to turn the tide and weaken the fish.


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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 06:07 AM Thread Starter
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Little update and correction to my previous post. This afternoon I got a chance to observe there behavior more and realized was missing one of the rasboras and the last two were showing some of the similar signs. Think I lost one ember also (they are pretty good at hiding), hard to tell if they are showing signs. They are acting more scared I guess but hard to tell if its just reaction to the CPDs since the embers hang out with them all the time.

The corys are all active and eating but to a lesser degree then previous.

Shrimp and snails are unaffected, going on like normal. That includes (knock on wood) after the first treatment of para guard was added. I dont really cull the shrimp but still have some nice painted RCS and a few of the "wild types" have a nice yellow color which was unexpected along with a few brendels and some with almost tiger stripes. Kind of wanted to keep these guys around.

Bummer of a afternoon. Got home from work and had to remove 2 CPDs doing barrel rolls and getting stuck on filter or nibbled on by the RCS. Only find 3 Embers 1 of which is looking bad, can't find any of the rasboras. OTOs and Cory's seem to be doing ok and eating. Shrimp are all normal as can be.

Second treatment is tomorrow then water change Saturday. Don't see any of the tetras or CPDs making it at this point.


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Last edited by Darkblade48; 10-17-2019 at 03:34 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 02:19 AM
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Bummer of a afternoon. Got home from work and had to remove 2 CPDs doing barrel rolls and getting stuck on filter or nibbled on by the RCS. Only find 3 Embers 1 of which is looking bad, can't find any of the rasboras. OTOs and Cory's seem to be doing ok and eating. Shrimp are all normal as can be.

Second treatment is tomorrow then water change Saturday. Don't see any of the tetras or CPDs making it at this point.
Oh no! Im sorry going through this.


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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 02:28 AM Thread Starter
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Bummer for sure. Thing that bugs me is they look normal, full color, no abnormalities or anything that I can pin point besides there actions and dying ofcourse. The ember i just saw on the sand sideways looked perfectly healthy besides his position and slight shimmying.

Here are a couple videos.
This was on the 9th. Now that I look at the vid I believe they were acting a little skittish and not quit right. Wasnt until that friday that I really noticed issues.
https://youtu.be/_pelw_lFMtw

14th after getting home.
https://youtu.be/kxXRWRk05vo

This was today
https://youtu.be/gG9lPjSnX50


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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 05:45 PM
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Hmmm....

In the first video you can see some of the CPD's tucked in spaces, alone. Some others that are still swimming about with the others appear slightly as if losing color.

I could confidently say this is not toxicity. Those shrimp would surely die long before the fish were affected.

This is either internal parasites or bacterial. Maybe both. White feces like displayed in 2nd video can be either due to parasites or bacterial infection.
The affected fish in 3rd video are very weak and are having difficulty keeping themselves upright. Color is very faded, Hollowed out stomachs, bent from emaciation.

Have you seen any improvement with the General Cure? Remind me, was this illness confined to CPD or also in other fish? ( edit: looked back, Rasboras also affected).


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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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@Discusluv

Initially I only saw it really in the CPDs. What thru me off initially was in person the color doesnt look off really. Maybe a little duller then normal but I think the video makes them seem a little duller then in real life. (EDIT: your probably right actually on the color being more washed out. Compared it to some of my other videos from while back. Not a huge loss of color but apparent as you mentioned).

Affected fish first were CPDs, then started noticing it in the Embers and lastly the Rasboras. As of last night there were I think 6 of 10 CPDs, 3 of 5 Embers, 0 of 3 Rasboras. All the corys are still kicking, eating but not as vigorously as usual however saw fresh cory eggs and they still cleaned up the sinking food.

As far as improvement its hard to tell. To be honest I would say minimal if any on that first 24hrs. When I get home this afternoon will be 48hrs and time for the 2nd treatment. Will update if I see any improvement or no improvement.


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Last edited by Quint; 10-17-2019 at 06:52 PM. Reason: update
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 07:27 PM
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You should see some improvement ( as in no more deaths) by 3rd day if this treatment is what is needed and we are treating for what we think we are.
If deaths continue- you may need to treat with levamisole or flubendazole for nematodes.
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 01:57 AM Thread Starter
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Well hit and miss (basically not sure yet). Found one rasbora that I thought were gone but had to remove him.

CPDs 6 left, they are at least grouped together, very weak but only one is resting on the buce leaf.

Ember tetras are at two (Male and female) and look relatively normal, hanging out under buce leaf which is a normal hang out for them. The male will go over to the CPDs here and there then go back to the female ember. They usually schooled together off and on when all of them were there.

Hoping the CPDs last long enough to start eating.

@Discusluv So would like your opinion on dealing with a schedule change I didnt see coming. Would like to mention I know you dont necessarily have all the answers just looking for opinion based on experience, anyone else please chime in as well if you have had experience with this in the past.

It turns out I need to leave for the weekend, original plan was family was coming out to me but that fell thru so I am traveling to see them (different living situation then most but it works for now). As of right now the second treatment will be at 24hrs in tonight when I get home. The directions say to make each treatment go for 48hrs then do a 25% water change and add activated carbon to the filter to remove any traces of the medication I assume.

So I can either leave it be thru the weekend and do water change Monday after work or I can do the water change this afternoon at the 24-28hr point and add the carbon at the same time. My usual water change schedule is every Thursday or Friday about 35%. Ive done it this way since I established the tank.

Inputs/recommendations please.


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Last edited by Darkblade48; 10-28-2019 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 05:47 PM
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I would leave medication in until Monday. Give the medication extra time to work on the issues are dealing with.
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