L'il Angels - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-05-2019, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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L'il Angels



I've been growing out these angels for two months now to eventually go into my disply tank. They were dime/nickel body size when I first got them - maybe four to six weeks old? Would say they are a little bigger than quarter size now. They are in a ten gallon tank with pool filter sand, sponge filter, heater, some wisteria, and a dozen or so ramshorns. I do 80+% water changes twice a week. No sign of ammonia so far but at yesterday's water change there was a surprising amount of fish waste. May need to start changing water every other day. But even if I can continue to extend the time I can keep their water clean, at some point their quarters will be cramped to the point of stunting. I currently feed them five times a day more or less. They see me coming and go crazy in anticipation any time I feed. They are real little piggies. There is no way I could continue that feeding schedule in the display tank without it crashing. So therein lies my dilemma; when should I move these lovelies to my main tank? Opinions and insights would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-05-2019, 04:24 PM
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8 Angels in a 10 gallon tank at quarter size is getting into territory where stunting or extreme aggression due to lack of space can occur.
I would put them in your display tank or get a larger ( a 30 gallon would work out well here) tank to continue growing them out in. They will grow better--more to their potential, have more space to establish territories and lessen con-specific aggression, and you will have far more room for error in terms of water quality.
If choose display, I would cut feedings down to 3 a day in display and do at least 1- 50% water change weekly ( or 2- 25% water changes weekly). Be sure to monitor your water parameters to see where you are sitting after a week, right before a water change. There really is no way to determine where you will be, all tanks are different.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-05-2019, 04:59 PM
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I'm with @Discusluv here, personally I'd put them in the display at this point. They all look healthy and strong, and the 10 is going to get way too cramped at this point, very quickly. Unless you have large fish that can eat fish that size, they should be good to go.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks y'all. Appreciate your thoughts. Have witnessed a little more aggression in this tank of late. Nothing too serious - no injuries. And they are also still very skittish which I gotta think the heavily planted seventy five would help alleviate. Believe you have pushed me toward at least moving them out of their ten gallon. I do want to get these guys into the 75 but still think they could benefit in the long run with a little more time alone in a grow out situation. Petco's dollar per gallon sale did just start, hmmm. Would a twenty tall possibly buy me another month? I also need to remind myself that I now have four tanks going in as many months. Have been warned of this affliction that has become so widespread it even has its own acronym much to the dismay of the communities Malaysian trumpet snails. Would need to break this one down if I got the twenty, for sure. Also, know I'll still be doing frequent large water changes with a new twenty but you guess the current sponge filter and sand would keep a cycle in a new twenty tall?
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 06:54 PM
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Thanks y'all. Appreciate your thoughts. Have witnessed a little more aggression in this tank of late. Nothing too serious - no injuries. And they are also still very skittish which I gotta think the heavily planted seventy five would help alleviate. Believe you have pushed me toward at least moving them out of their ten gallon. I do want to get these guys into the 75 but still think they could benefit in the long run with a little more time alone in a grow out situation. Petco's dollar per gallon sale did just start, hmmm. Would a twenty tall possibly buy me another month? I also need to remind myself that I now have four tanks going in as many months. Have been warned of this affliction that has become so widespread it even has its own acronym much to the dismay of the communities Malaysian trumpet snails. Would need to break this one down if I got the twenty, for sure. Also, know I'll still be doing frequent large water changes with a new twenty but you guess the current sponge filter and sand would keep a cycle in a new twenty tall?


Probably, but what’s the stocking in the 75? A heavily planted tank with outgoing dithers could be more beneficial than a grow out situation, actually. They would feel secure and often putting them in a significantly larger space will lead to a big growth spurt.


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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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^^the 75^^

Current stocking: 11 rummy nose tetras, 6 cherry barbs, eight three line cories, seven kuhli loaches, 2 otocinclus, countless ramshorns. Looking to up the rummies to ~twenty soon and possibly another couple of otos. With the addition of the angels, would consider the tank fully stocked at that point. May rehome a few angels down the road if need be.

My reasoning for sequestering the angels a little longer is simply to be able to overfeed them with easy cleaning of their tank.

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 07:51 PM
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^^the 75^^



Current stocking: 11 rummy nose tetras, 6 cherry barbs, eight three line cories, seven kuhli loaches, 2 otocinclus, countless ramshorns. Looking to up the rummies to ~twenty soon and possibly another couple of otos. With the addition of the angels, would consider the tank fully stocked at that point. May rehome a few angels down the road if need be.



My reasoning for sequestering the angels a little longer is simply to be able to overfeed them with easy cleaning of their tank.


First off, beautiful tank! Great choice with the rummies, I have 23 in my 40 breeder, and they’re great fish. The more you get, the more you’ll love them.

I think the angels would be super happy in the 75, but either way won’t hurt. With the amount you have, you’d just have to be vigilant in the smaller tank. Bigger space = growth spurt = more crowding which could = more aggression. But either way is good.


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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 08:26 PM
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I would move them now. If the big tank is already established I think you will be fine. Maybe cut down on the feeding a bit but you are going to do more harm keeping them in the small tank than you would putting them in the large tank and feeding a bit less.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 08:58 PM
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A 30 gallon would be the minimum I would go. Ultimately, the goal here is , as you have made clear, to get maximum growth and health through several feedings daily and frequent water changes. It is a proven method of growing out both Angels and discus. But, need to keep all of those elements in balance: the amount of food/feedings, the amount and frequency of water changes ( and the ability by you to do them is another huge factor here), space for growth, the aggression of these cichlids/need for retreats for subordinates and markers to establish territories.

I would much rather grow angels or discus out in a tank that balances all these elements and ( also important here as I said) is easiest on you. The easiest and most effective method is actually not in the 75. Its too big.

If cant do a 30 gallon, however, the next best alternative becomes the 75.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 09:11 PM
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A 30 gallon would be the minimum I would go. Ultimately, the goal here is , as you have made clear, to get maximum growth and health through several feedings daily and frequent water changes. It is a proven method of growing out both Angels and discus. But, need to keep all of those elements in balance: the amount of food/feedings, the amount and frequency of water changes ( and the ability by you to do them is another huge factor here), space for growth, the aggression of these cichlids/need for retreats for subordinates and markers to establish territories.



I would much rather grow angels or discus out in a tank that balances all these elements and ( also important here as I said) is easiest on you. The easiest and most effective method is actually not in the 75. Its too big.



If cant do a 30 gallon, however, the next best alternative becomes the 75.


That’s why I love having a Python. Was able to change water on all my tanks yesterday in 1.5 hours, and that’s taking my time with cleaning, trimming, ferts, etc.


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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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OK, thanks you three. Now leaning toward putting them in the 75 after next Friday's 50% water change. Thought with the twenty high I could add a tall sword and a large group of wisteria (both in pots) to add a little more cover for aggression avoidance and skittish cover. And (hopefully) when they pair off might be a good breeding tank. Am diligent re water changes/haven't missed one yet. Still though the seventy five sounds the better option. Gotta get off the fence. One bonus that just occurred to me is none of the current 75 residents are top feeders and the angels thus far are - almost exclusively. Should allow a little heavier feeding for them without as much wasted food.

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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 10:27 PM
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OK, thanks you three. Now leaning toward putting them in the 75 after next Friday's 50% water change. Thought with the twenty high I could add a tall sword and a large group of wisteria (both in pots) to add a little more cover for aggression avoidance and skittish cover. And (hopefully) when they pair off might be a good breeding tank. Am diligent re water changes/haven't missed one yet. Still though the seventy five sounds the better option. Gotta get off the fence. One bonus that just occurred to me is none of the current 75 residents are top feeders and the angels thus far are - almost exclusively. Should allow a little heavier feeding for them without as much wasted food.
You could also feed a high amount of frozen foods, when I'm able to do that, it seems to get my fish really going.


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