Corydoras habrosus and Excel - The Planted Tank Forum
 13Likes
  • 2 Post By Jamo33
  • 1 Post By Discusluv
  • 1 Post By D.Farci
  • 1 Post By Triport
  • 1 Post By Discusluv
  • 3 Post By somewhatshocked
  • 2 Post By Deanna
  • 1 Post By varanidguy
  • 1 Post By Jamo33
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Jamo33's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 661
Corydoras habrosus and Excel

Hey everyone,

So in my low tech 20gallon tank I am having some algae issues. Specifically BBA and staghorn growing on the rocks and wood, 99% of plants are free from algae. I know there is an underlying issue and I would love to figure it out, but because I am not a genius and able to do that like many others on here, I have opted to at least try keep the algae at bay with flourish excel.
I started treatment with the normal dosage instructions, then upped it a bit as many of us have learnt, it does not always work at prescribed levels. So I'm doing .5ml per gallon, not outrageous and definitely talked about on here multiple times.
After treating I began noticing some 'washed out' cories, like when you first get them washed out. Almost all colouration was lost and though they behaved entirely normally, this caused me great concern. I ran all tests on the tank and all parameters are in check, if they weren't I'm sure my CRS would have perished first, but they are all stick going strong.
Not thinking it was excel I continued and the washed out colorations remained. Then the flashing started, fearful as I am about my fish getting a disease and all dying I ran more parameter tests and again, all good. So why are they flashing? Couldnt noodle it out, until lightbulb, "it's the excel isnt it!" sprang into the brain. Stopped dosing and now all cories are strongly colored and unaffected as they always were with behaivor.
So, is this a particular issue for cories? Something make them more susceptible to the excel? I do not want to stress them for no good reason, so is there an alternative?

By the way...the algae is entirely unaffected by this treatment. Infact I got worse throughout using it...now I am truly on the path to destruction as my tank makes way for more and more algae.

Tell me your experiences and advice, also I hope this helps anyone in the future with habrosus and excel, they may not mix very well.

Cheers
James
Blue Ridge Reef and Discusluv like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Jamo33 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 02:33 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Discusluv's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Elk Grove, California
Posts: 4,146
This makes sense to me--- corydoras are scaleless catfish that have bony plates that do not entirely cover their bodies. Corydoras, along with other scaleless fish, are one of the first fish in the aquarium to be plagued with parasites-- they are just more vulnerable due to the lack of scales.

Thanks for posting this-- we need to remind ourselves that not all fish are the same. Some fish are more vulnerable to what we put into the aquarium than others.
Desert Pupfish likes this.


Discusluv is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 03:37 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Posts: 1,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamo33 View Post
Hey everyone,

So in my low tech 20gallon tank I am having some algae issues. Specifically BBA and staghorn growing on the rocks and wood, 99% of plants are free from algae. I know there is an underlying issue and I would love to figure it out, but because I am not a genius and able to do that like many others on here, I have opted to at least try keep the algae at bay with flourish excel.
I started treatment with the normal dosage instructions, then upped it a bit as many of us have learnt, it does not always work at prescribed levels. So I'm doing .5ml per gallon, not outrageous and definitely talked about on here multiple times.
After treating I began noticing some 'washed out' cories, like when you first get them washed out. Almost all colouration was lost and though they behaved entirely normally, this caused me great concern. I ran all tests on the tank and all parameters are in check, if they weren't I'm sure my CRS would have perished first, but they are all stick going strong.
Not thinking it was excel I continued and the washed out colorations remained. Then the flashing started, fearful as I am about my fish getting a disease and all dying I ran more parameter tests and again, all good. So why are they flashing? Couldnt noodle it out, until lightbulb, "it's the excel isnt it!" sprang into the brain. Stopped dosing and now all cories are strongly colored and unaffected as they always were with behaivor.
So, is this a particular issue for cories? Something make them more susceptible to the excel? I do not want to stress them for no good reason, so is there an alternative?

By the way...the algae is entirely unaffected by this treatment. Infact I got worse throughout using it...now I am truly on the path to destruction as my tank makes way for more and more algae.

Tell me your experiences and advice, also I hope this helps anyone in the future with habrosus and excel, they may not mix very well.

Cheers
James
I don't have habrosus, but I do have panda, (false) julii, and pygmaeus, none of which ever reacted with glut. The panda and julii are in a 40 breeder and the pgymies are in a 10 gallon. Very strange indeed, but it's best to be better safe than sorry. If it is negatively effecting your fish, I'd cease using it immediately. Have you tried h2o2 (hydrogen peroxide)? It will likely be safer and since it's an oxidizer, it will still kill algae.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
varanidguy is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 05:01 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: PNW
Posts: 700
I have false juliis as well and they seem to be unaffected. However I dont dose every day and honestly the only thing it seems to somewhat help with is the pea soup algae outbreak I fought a couple weeks ago. Even then I am not 100% sure it did anything as I was on a high water change cycle and reduced light coming in thru a glass double door which I am pretty sure was the cause of that one.

I have pretty much given up on it now, got some more OTOs and will rely on them, nerites, shrimp, and my own two hands.

Dosing phosphates has helped with the GSA, however once its high enough to help with that other algaes get happier.
Quint is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 11:46 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Jamo33's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 661
@Discusluv
I knew they were pretty susceptible to parasites and stress etc, but didnt see this coming.
@varanidguy
And that's the whole thing, I want to keep them safe and happy, plus if I'm not seeing great results I might as well stop using it. Maybe some spot dosing if I can. Or h2O2.
@Quint
I wonder why mine have shown stress from excel then. Try as I might to fix these algae issues, so far it is having no affect. I am guessing my fluctuations and random dosing isnt helping. Need to get a good base fert schedule for low tech!

Perhaps this all coincided with my excel treatments...but I feel the excel is to blame in this case.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Jamo33 is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 12:37 AM
Planted Member
 
D.Farci's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 175
I had a few habrosus in a 55 gallon and dosed .5ml/gallon every 3 days or so. They grew nice and large (relatively!). Sorry to hear about your troubles.
Jamo33 likes this.

Go Timbers
D.Farci is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 01:31 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
Triport's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Central Coast of California
Posts: 1,184
I've triple dosed Excel in the past in a tank full of 50+ Corydoras and never noticed any of them bothered by it. But I don't have C. hasbrosus. If the BBA is on the rocks and wood remove them and clean them off rather than putting chemicals in the entire tank. Can soak them overnight in a diluted bleach solution, spray them off with Hydrogen Peroxide, or just scrub them with a tooth brush or something.
Jamo33 likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Triport is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 02:37 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Discusluv's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Elk Grove, California
Posts: 4,146
It's certainly very fortunate that many have had no issues with Excel and their corydoras ( or other fish for that matter)-- but, I say trust your instincts in that regard. Ive seen sensitivity while using Excel in my own fish.

Currently, I am only using Excel in one of my 7 low-tech tanks due to the sensitivity of the fish in them or because I have shrimp and dont want to chance it. I have no experience dosing Excel with shrimp; but, it has been recommended to me that it is unwise to do so by life-long shrimp-keepers so I kinda just take this as wisdom.

My discus, however, they are very sensitive to Excel and I have witnessed their thick mucus layer billow up in threads off of them when dosing it. The shedding of this mucus layer signals to me that there is irritation to the mucus lining. They also tend to rub on plants and objects after in an attempt to get away from it. My geophagus, Altum Angels, and African tetras are unaffected- so I dose in this tank.

I also had a group of newly acclimated (2 days acclimated) wild, Rummy-nose tetras die within minutes of dosing with Excel. They started barreling, rapid breathing, died within minutes. The Rummy nose I already had were unaffected- I just lost the new ones.
Stress made them more sensitive? Dont know.
Jamo33 likes this.


Discusluv is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 02:56 AM
Obsessed? Maybe
 
somewhatshocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (494/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Middle America
Posts: 14,582
I don't use Excel in shrimp tanks. Don't like to use it in any tank, really. But it occasionally has its usefulness.

When it comes to C. habrosus? I would put them in the same boat as shrimp when it comes to something like Excel. Especially in a tank as small as a 20gal.

I've always kept mine in small tanks (20 and under) and have found that they're more sensitive to fertilizer, hardness shifts (osmotic pressure) and even light intensity than most other fish I've kept. More sensitive than C. pygmaeus, even. Love their little goofy faces and have just learned to live with not doing much in their tanks.

Have you tried spot treating with peroxide? I've found it to be less risky than Excel.
Jamo33, varanidguy and Discusluv like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

somewhatshocked is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 03:19 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: PA
Posts: 1,595
I have one Habrosus among several of my Cories and have, occasionally, dosed up to 3ml / gal Excel with no effect on any of the Cories. However, this is a one-and-done dosing of Excel specifically to kill hair algae (https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...l#post10762025). When I did have a low-tech setup, I dosed Excel at recommended levels and had no Cory issues.

When I think of flashing, I usually think of a parasitic infection, but water parameters can also do it, although I’ve never read about this happening with Excel. I don’t think it a good idea to overdose Excel on a regular (daily) basis, as it can ‘wear down’ fish and shrimp. This over-prescribed regular dosing, coupled with other uncomfortable water parameters might do it. Excel is also a reducing agent. If you are over-dosing consistently, your O2 levels may be unsatisfactory. This, of course, can make fish uncomfortable and reduce BB activity. Long-term use of excess Excel might also dampen BB activity by killing some BB, besides the O2 possibility. Did you also check your NH3? Also, Excel can be much more potent at ph above 7.0 and the potency increases as pH increases.

The single-dose technique, mentioned above, will easily kill hair algae and then you can return to a regular, per-instructions, dosing. Although I’ve done a lot of damage to fish and shrimp using H2O2 treatments at levels able to kill algae, I have had success using an isolation chamber described here: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...l#post11234245

As you probably know, the best long-term solution is to eliminate the cause of the red algae. This is usually accomplished with healthy plants. Regular, prescribed-level dosing, of Excel can help do this in a low-tech setup.
Jamo33 and varanidguy like this.
Deanna is offline  
post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 05:30 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Posts: 1,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanna View Post
I have one Habrosus among several of my Cories and have, occasionally, dosed up to 3ml / gal Excel with no effect on any of the Cories. However, this is a one-and-done dosing of Excel specifically to kill hair algae (https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...l#post10762025). When I did have a low-tech setup, I dosed Excel at recommended levels and had no Cory issues.

When I think of flashing, I usually think of a parasitic infection, but water parameters can also do it, although I’ve never read about this happening with Excel. I don’t think it a good idea to overdose Excel on a regular (daily) basis, as it can ‘wear down’ fish and shrimp. This over-prescribed regular dosing, coupled with other uncomfortable water parameters might do it. Excel is also a reducing agent. If you are over-dosing consistently, your O2 levels may be unsatisfactory. This, of course, can make fish uncomfortable and reduce BB activity. Long-term use of excess Excel might also dampen BB activity by killing some BB, besides the O2 possibility. Did you also check your NH3? Also, Excel can be much more potent at ph above 7.0 and the potency increases as pH increases.

The single-dose technique, mentioned above, will easily kill hair algae and then you can return to a regular, per-instructions, dosing. Although I’ve done a lot of damage to fish and shrimp using H2O2 treatments at levels able to kill algae, I have had success using an isolation chamber described here: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...l#post11234245

As you probably know, the best long-term solution is to eliminate the cause of the red algae. This is usually accomplished with healthy plants. Regular, prescribed-level dosing, of Excel can help do this in a low-tech setup.
This is exactly why I like to have glut on hand. It's a very effective algaecide after you've figured out, or even as part of the troubleshooting process, how to get rid of algae by solving the underlying problem. I uprooted two really big "clumps" of crypts as part of a partial rescape...all of the organics hiding and being happy in the substrate got spread throughout the tank. I knew exactly what caused it, and got it under control, but it did cause a bit of BBA. The BBA has stopped spreading entirely, but the glut can be very effective to have on hand to get rid of what's left.
Deanna likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
varanidguy is offline  
post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Jamo33's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 661
Wow, thank you for the response all!
A lot of information here so I am going to randomly answer questions and address advice then simply tag you all...excuse the laziness.

Extremely interesting that barely anyone else has had issues with excel and their cories, which leaves me looking for alternative issues. NH3, whilst it appears to be at .25ppm in tests, I refuse to believe this. Though the tests are the only thing I have to go on, I cannot in my right mind accept that I have shrimp and fish acting perfectly happy without issue living in any level of ammonia. However, I will test again, water changes today as well.

I will try peroxide treatments as well...this has recently also been ineffective on the algaes I have had. Perhaps this is due to misuse, but it had been 100% successful prior to this tank and now nothing seems to be damaging this algae. Let's see how it goes.

I have a feeling that there is a huge imbalance in this tank fert wise. I am wanting to figure it out, but probably need some assistance on where to start on a new batch of ferts for low tech...things could get much worse before they improve. As far as removing rocks etc, cannot be done...not without ruining the entire scape sadly.

I actually think some signs from plants are showing deficiencies, red/yellowing at the top of cabomba (if that is what this plant is) plus increased inter-nodal lengths.

BBA in this tank is most likely cause by organics of course...but cleanings are incredibly difficult to accomplish in this set up and I am not sure why there would be such high levels of organics.
At the end of the day, I am a tad confused by this tank in particular. Since it being set up nothing has truly 'settled' and it is getting me a bit frustrated if I am honest. I would love there to be some easy fix, but I feel these are the outcomes of a tank in perpetual fluctuation with no easily foreseeable change to that.

For my habrosus, I will note any changes in behavior and colouration after maintenance etc. I will try everything I can to keep both fish and plants happy, but fish first in my eyes.

@D.Farci @Triport @somewhatshocked @Deanna @Discusluv @varanidguy
Triport likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Jamo33 is offline  
post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 04:34 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Posts: 1,737
You should post some pictures of your tank, plants, and algae in question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
varanidguy is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome