Today I received an online order of 10 assassin snails (to be distributed among our various tanks to help with pest snail problems), and a dozen rummynose tetras. Without thinking I tossed both snails and tetras into our 55 g QT tank. Now my husband and I are scratching our heads and wondering if quarantining the snails was necessary at best, or at worst putting the new tetras at risk of infection from anything the snails might pass on? Should we have QT'd them separately? We actually only have one QT tank, but for future reference if the answer is yes we will find a way.
From the same place? If so I'd quarantine together. If from different places, ideal world you'd quarantine apart, but not terrible if you don't have the space. Quarantine protects your existing tanks/stock that are (hopefully) healthy. Worst case scenario if the snails have something you've limited the potential spread to just the new tetras.
Tbh though, you'd probably never know it was the snails and not something the tetras came with. And, if you didn't dump the back water in (which you shouldn't) that limits it further - with fish and snails there is much less chance of disease effecting the other than two different batches of fish.
The fact you are quarantining at all is excellent - that's the biggest thing that will protect your current fish, don't worry too much about the fine details.
Between snails and fish I wouldn't worry about it. If it was two or more species of fish that might be cause for concern. Not saying you shouldn't quarantine different fish together just that it is a judgement call.
Here is the core of the issue: my husband feels it is necessary to proactively treat the new tetras for internal parasites with Seachem Cupramine Copper, especially because these tetras will eventually be going into the 125 g with 9 discus (3 of which are already immuno-compromised from the nitrite disaster...see my thread titled "Effects of Nitrite on Discus.."). Copper, I believe, is toxic to the snails, so do we catch the snails and put them in their intended tanks so we can treat the tetras? This would break the quarantine on the snails, but I'm still not sure if snails need to be quarantined in the first place.
Yeah I probably wouldn't bother with quarantining snails. I have never in the past and had no problems. Maybe just examine them in the quarantine tank for a few days and see that they look healthy. Then remove them to the main tank and treat the quarantined fish.
A word about snails beyond unnecessary copper treatments (you'd likely never be able to keep shrimp or snails if you followed Live Aquaria's horrible advice)...
Why are you trying to rid your tank of other snails? Pond, Bladder, Ramshorn, et al, snails won't overpopulate your tank if there's not an overabundance of "food" for them to consume. You can keep snails in check by making sure you don't allow food to sit uneaten in a tank for any lengthy period. Regular water changes will help keep wastes down. A filter maintenance schedule will also help.
Snails are beneficial for your system. They clean up algae, eat waste, consume leftover food, eat plants that are damaged or dying.
How can you guarantee your not buying a fish that may become sick?
A visual of a fish in its current state of "good health" at purchase is no guarantee to its future health.
I buy from some of the most reputable sources in the states- none of them say that because their fish are so well cared for that quarantine should be foregone. It is always recommended when mixing one stock with another.
I can only say that having a quarantine tank is often a luxury that many fishkeepers can't afford the expense or space to have. I consider myself lucky to be able to have one at all. I do think that, for myself and my spouse, quarantining new stock is probably the best practice in the long run to keep our losses at a minimum...but I also recognize and respect that not everyone agrees with this or has the capability to follow suit.
I'd disagree with that - a quarantine tank doesn't need to be fancy, or set up permanently. Even just a rubbermaid plastic tub can work, with a spare filter and heater - if you keep the filter running on the display tank it's almost instant to set up a quarantine tank. I see people on the reef side of the hobby doing this, and if it works for their sensitive fish I see no reason it shouldn't work in freshwater. If you can afford new fish, and the potential to need to medicate your entire (planted!) display, you can afford a simple quarantine setup.
All you need is one common reason to quarantine ( albeit, like NTD there are many, many more)- four strains of columnaris that can wipe out a tank from 12 hours ( the most rapidly developing variant with no outward symptoms) to several weeks.
Ich is a cake-walk. I never lose fish to Ich. Drop in some malachite green blend and it is as harmless as a splinter.
But, quarantine is a personal choice. We are all pretty cavalier about it until we have that first financial bite in the a--.
Then its like "Ouch~ that burned a huge hole in my pocket-book."
Lol wow. Just because I have an opinion different from you does not mean I am trolling. If you want to flex your "mod" powers and kick out dissenting aquarists then go ahead and keep this forum as your own little echo chamber.
I'm not dictating what people should do or not do. All I'm doing is sharing my own experiences and things that I've found to greatly benefit fish survivability. Quarantine is not one of them. Ensuring good water quality is far more important. What is the point of putting a fish in a crystal clear quarantine tank, just to move them into an overstocked community tank? The shift from quarantine tank to an overstocked tank is more likely to cause problems for the fish than the fish actually having some disease.
Quarantining to ensure line quality is a whole different topic. Yes, I do that with my shrimp as well. I will 'quarantine' the shrimp I buy and ensure that they are the grade that they claim to be, so that they don't contaminate my existing lines.
If I were "flexing"? You'd have received an infraction. That's why I asked - to be certain you weren't trolling. So take it down a notch.
It's a pretty contrary position to take and most people with any amount of experience can understand and appreciate the importance of quarantine. I'd argue it's extreme to suggest quarantining is a waste of time and, based on years of experience moderating, it's usually trolls who stake out such a position.
You can keep asking what the point of quarantine is but you already know. It's available for you to read right here in the thread or elsewhere on the internet. If it's not a practice you want to use? Don't. But it's potentially dangerous and disingenuous to tell others it's a waste of time. Fortunately, people can read for themselves and discern whether or not they want to take a risk or try to eliminate it.
But moving a fish from a quarantine tank with matched parameters is not going to be much of a shock to a fish and isn't going to be more problematic than not quarantining.
I currently work at a big box store pet store and can't stress enough the importance of quarantining all new livestock. We get customers all the time that want to buy fish as soon as they arrive. Problem with that is the fish will arrive looking healthy. After a day or two they will start to drop dead. Ich is extremely uncommon with our vendors because of the chemicals they use to control external parasites. The problem is that columnaris and other bacteria are very common and hard to treat if you're picking antibiotics at random. Some antibiotics are no longer effective at combating certain strains. Without any microscopes or experience at identify bacteria strains. We are just throwing darts at a dart board blindfolded. Hoping to get it right before the fish die or it spreads.
Small mom and pop LFS are far more prone to getting ich because they can choose different vendors to order from and even directly from collectors. Usually ordering from the cheapest place to compete with big box pet stores. Resulting in healthy looking fish that are full of parasites and potentially deadly bacteria. The good LFS will quarantine for you and treat the fish like Aquarium Co-OP does, but most do not.
So if you care about your fish and buying more to add to the tank. Please quarantine them first. Not doing so, is like playing Russian roulette with your fish's lives. Play enough times and they'll pay the price. Then again, some people just don't care about the fish and feel they are entitled to killing the fish because they paid for them. I don't believe we own fish when we buy them. We are paying for the privilege of caring for them and the responsibility that comes with it.
Regarding snails transmitting diseases to fish. I'm not aware of any snail parasites that can complete their life cycle in an enclosed aquarium system. Usually need a bird to complete the cycle. There are plenty of worms that fish can get from snails but most are harmless.
Watch out for camallanus worms aka red yarn worms. If one fish in the LFS has it, chances are good that it has spread to every fish there. Newly infected fish can live years before wasting away. Depends on the type of fish and size. It's an easy parasite to get rid of with some dewormer. If you ever see a fish wasting away but still eating. Immediately buy some dewormer and set up an empty hospital tank. This is a parasite that can easily slip past most quarantine methods.
Regarding snails transmitting diseases to fish. I'm not aware of any snail parasites that can complete their life cycle in an enclosed aquarium system. Usually need a bird to complete the cycle. There are plenty of worms that fish can get from snails but most are harmless.
Yay! An answer to my initial question! Thank you!!!!!
Bump:
Yay! An answer to my initial question! Thank you!!!!!
edit: Having disagreements is 100% fine and welcome. We all have to be able to have conversations. Particularly in a hobby that gets confusing.
Original post:
It's definitely realistic to have matching parameters. In my inert substrate tanks with just tap water, everything is the same. kH, gH, pH, nitrate, you name it. The water I use for changes in all my tanks - not just QT - have matched parameters. So I can easily pull 50% of water and slowly add it back to the QT tank with no issue. Since most newcomers are going to be working with tap water, their tank and their QT container are going to be nearly identical.
For someone who isn't a newcomer? It's even easier to match parameters and dial things in on several fronts. And it's easier for them to spot potential illness or cause(s) of concern.
CO2 injection doesn't impact water hardness or osmotic pressure, so temporary perceived pH swings of a degree or two don't really matter much. Not even with sensitive shrimp. Only becomes an issue if there's too much CO2 in the water and not enough oxygen. But most people using CO2 are relatively advanced aquarists and take time to slowly introduce new critters to both fertilizers and CO2 concentrations.
Being popular on social media or the forums doesn't mean someone has any real experience and isn't an indicator that they know what they're doing, unfortunately. But I haven't seen many people suffering major losses with properly quarantined fish as they transition them to their forever tank. At least not fish that are healthy. Anyone experiencing more issues when quarantining than not quarantining likely aren't putting in any real effort or they're just winging it. They also likely have far less experience than an experienced hobbyist who probably knows more by looking at livestock than they'll ever learn before they burn out.**
One thing I've noticed recently among some retailers - particularly those importing large quantities and wholesaling livestock - is that they're dishonest about quarantine practices. Sadly, I see it most often with shrimp importers. They brag about being the biggest, the best, having the healthiest stocks and they just don't. But it's still a bigger deal on the fish side of things. There's just no way for them to properly quarantine and monitor health and they should be more up front about it instead of giving false assurances. Sneaky retailers trying to maximize profit (I'm not poo-pooing that) like this are absolutely more problematic than hobbyists not quarantining their critters.
**Quarantining as an experienced hobbyist is something we should also keep in mind when comparing to others. It's easier for you or me to know we have healthy stock than someone without much hands-on experience. So my quarantine for something may be only a few days (like with snails I recently got in) instead of a few weeks.
Not everyone has the luxury of being able to house multiple tanks. But I look at it like this: If someone wants a tank? They need to be able to factor in something like quarantine and plan for potential problems. If it's a financial issue, they need to save up and have more patience. If someone claims it's an issue of space, they're probably just making an excuse - I live in a literal tiny home and have enough room to temporarily (or long-term if I have to) quarantine in a giant Rubbermaid tote.
Not everyone has the luxury of being able to house multiple tanks. But I look at it like this: If someone wants a tank? They need to be able to factor in something like quarantine and plan for potential problems. If it's a financial issue, they need to save up and have more patience. If someone claims it's an issue of space, they're probably just making an excuse - I live in a literal tiny home and have enough room to temporarily (or long-term if I have to) quarantine in a giant Rubbermaid tote.
Okay, I apologize if I sounded rude. I really wanted to avoid any arguments but I guess this is where we have fundamental disagreements.
I genuinely think it is LESS dangerous and better off for the fish if people (that are non-professional hobbyists) avoid the quarantine process. This is something I truly believe in, and I will share why:
For the majority of amateur fishkeepers, how realistic is it to have perfectly matching parameters with main tank vs quarantine tank? This is actually HARDER than we think.
If we do a 50% water change on a 10g quarantine, we already removed a far greater proportion of dissolved solids, waste, and other stuff than a 20% water change on a 75g+. This does not even factor in that our main tank might have rocks, substrate, etc that will affect the water parameters
On top of that, if we inject CO2 into our planted tanks, how many of us will do the same to our quarantine tanks? Just from CO2 concentration differences, the quarantine tank will have a different pH than the main tank.
Then there are temperature differences, filter differences, lighting differences and much more.
A lot of members say this is common practice, but I really want us to put some thought into what is actually going on. I say this because I see a lot of popular youtubers, aquarists, plantedtank members suffer big losses on their fish. Much higher losses than what I believe they should. This whole quarantine process/transferring fish around from different environments, is what I feel is a big part of it.
I did not think your responses were rude but rather interesting and thought-provoking. I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with your opinion, and in fact will continue to quarantine new stock, but I commend you for sticking to your guns on a media where majority opinion rules and those who go against the grain are instantly railroaded into submission or accused of instigating trouble. Thank you for your contributions.
There is nothing thought provoking here in this counter-argument against quarantine-- let alone interesting.
The above argument made against quarantine practices is not a case of "sticking to your guns in the face of majority opposition"- it is opinion based on lack of experience and an unwillingness to listen to those who are experienced.
This is obvious to the majority.
Or, as it has also been noted, it is an attempt to be "contrary" in order to cause tension.
But using incendiary language rooted in racism is a quick way to get yourself kicked to the curb. Your intention doesn't matter.
The moderation team won't give anyone pulling a stunt like that a second chance.
ENOUGH!
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