Breeding CPD - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Breeding CPD

Wanted to share my recent experiences breeding as a sort of journal.


For background, we purchased 7 CPDs several months ago. They were in a 10g tank on their own except snails. The tank was heavily planted with a big moss "tree." Water was just dechlorinated tap. Injected CO2 for the plants, 9 hour photoperiod. Non-heated with temperatures in the low 70s. We found fry in the moss regularly. The way the moss was shaped provided a sort of moss breeding box where the fry were undisturbed by the adults. At the time I was feeding just crushed flake and pellets.





Here is a video of them feeding on baby brine so that you can see the setup:


In only a few months, our 7 fish became 28. Luckily we were already in the process of setting up a 40g, because they were getting cramped in the 10g.


Now, in the 40g, we have CPDs and Clown Killies. Soon we will have shrimp and other fish as well. We moved the tree to the new scape since we liked the design:



I consistently see the fish breeding above the moss, but the few fry we saw free-swimming have been eaten by the other fish since the moss breeder box is no longer present. We wanted to still have some breeding, so we are trying removing the eggs and putting them in another tank until they are a safe size. Some might be killifish egs, but I think it is primarily CPD.



Here are two males sparring around the breeding site. Didn't want to get too close and spook them, sorry for quality: https://i.imgur.com/RxVAEhj.mp4

Here is a photo of an egg in the moss. I don't know which eggs are which. One has white spots in the egg, like this. The others are crystal clear with only minor black flecks throughout.



I extracted the eggs from the tank using a turkey baster. The white ones were more adhesive, but the clear ones fall right off. I managed to get maybe 10-12 of the clear eggs. We put the eggs in the quarantine tank in a breeder box (to keep the shrimp off of them). Excuse the quality. These eggs are super tiny and are clear, so it is difficult to focus on them.

Here is a video showing movement inside the egg:
https://i.imgur.com/iUx1iN2.mp4

Here are a couple videos showing non-free swimming fry. You can see the tail and the yolk sac. They look more like tadpoles than fish at this point.
https://i.imgur.com/W1AyjbC.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/7GwijGl.mp4

Hope that they will be able to hatch out and survive in this tank. The tank has been set up for many months and has many plants. Hope there are enough microorganisms to feed on. We will use egg yolk and vinegar eels to help them out.


I will keep updating as time goes. Since these are a result of several females and males over several days, the timing will be staggered. Most sources report a couple of days to hatch and a couple more days to become free swimming. Since we already have at least two that have hatched, we should see some free-swimming soon.

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 12:31 AM
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This is really cool. I’ve been hoping to see my CPDs spawn. But this will do for now. Following along
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 04:13 AM
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Congrats on the spawning. It always adds a little extra excitement to the hobby.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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Last night we had a little bad news. Fungus on one egg spread to the others. Being new to this, I didn't understand how it can spread. I have removed all eggs with the fungus and will continue to do so. I don't have a photo, but here is one from the net showing how the fungus looks. Our 12 eggs are now only 4. We will continue to harvest from the tree though. I also might need to get a different breeder box, because the two fry that were previously in the box are now gone. I hope they are swimming around the tank and doing well, but they are too small to spot if they aren't in a known area.

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 03:10 PM
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That's a bummer. I've read more than once that Neocaridina shrimp will eat fungus'ed eggs or otherwise dead/dying eggs and leave healthy eggs alone. May be worth exploring...

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayakJimW View Post
That's a bummer. I've read more than once that Neocaridina shrimp will eat fungus'ed eggs or otherwise dead/dying eggs and leave healthy eggs alone. May be worth exploring...

The tank has one neocaridina and two "amanos" (not real amanos, but similar size). I suspect that the neocaridina would be fine, but the false amanos may be problematic. I will plan to add some eggs to a breeder box in our CRS tank to see how they handle the eggs. I am not sure what changed, but since the first harvest of eggs is seems like there are fewer in the tree. Maybe I am just missing them since they are so hard to spot.


Do the eggs need aeration like shrimp eggs do? Or are they ok in still water? The moss tree is used to diffuse the filter flow, so the back half of the tree gets heavy flow. The front side where I have harvested from gets much less flow.

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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I dumped the old eggs and scrubbed down the breeder box well before re-harvesting.
It takes some time to find the eggs in the moss, but there are many eggs every time I go hunting. I filled the breeder box up with maybe 25 more little clear eggs. Cannot see any fry or larva. Hoping to see larva in the next day or so, then I imagine they will swim out of the breeder box through the slits since they are so small.
I still need to move them to my shrimp tank. Right now they are in the quarantine tank, which isn't great because I have been dosing Plenaria Zero. I don't know if they will be impacted by that treatment.

I also wanted to note that this is not selective breeding at all. Typically if you are breeding for color you might put the two best adults in a spawning tank to ensure the eggs have the best genetics. Right now I am just indiscriminately pulling out eggs to give them a shot at survival. I anticipate that once the young grow up, the moss will be filled with eggs. I don't think I want to increase numbers long term.



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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 06:03 PM
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I've certainly hatched some eggs with little to no watermovement over them when I unintentionally moved some eggs on algae/moss, might increase their hatching rates though. I wasn't specifically trying to collect eggs or anything. I usually if trying to make a bunch of them play musical tanks(/buckets) with the parents and then just pull them out of a tank to see how many hatch after.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobblebonk View Post
I've certainly hatched some eggs with little to no watermovement over them when I unintentionally moved some eggs on algae/moss, might increase their hatching rates though. I wasn't specifically trying to collect eggs or anything. I usually if trying to make a bunch of them play musical tanks(/buckets) with the parents and then just pull them out of a tank to see how many hatch after.

The breeder sits in front of the Fluval C2's flow, but the box obstructs most of the flow. The eggs get a little water movement, but the eggs don't move.

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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Well, good news last night. I did my daily scavenging in the moss and picked up 4-5 larva in addition to the 2-3 that have hatched out in the breeder box. Now there are more than 30 eggs and some 8-10 larval fry. I was able to get a few decent shots. I think I might have CPD and Clown Killie fry in here because the larvae look different. Some of them have clear "heads" and the others have much more black in them. It may also be due to age. Based on this photo from SKF Aquatics, I think the dark ones are CPD:


My photos are not as impressive as those, but here they are:





I moved the breeder box to the shrimp tank so that the treatment in the quarantine tank doesn't impact them. I hope that the water parameter difference doesn't hurt them too much. Similar pH, but one is obtained through CO2 while the other is buffered substrate. kH and gH are within 1-2 degrees of each other.
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Last edited by ohaple; 08-09-2019 at 03:37 PM. Reason: .
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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I was able to figure out a much better method of photographing the eggs and fry. Hope some of you will find these interesting. I still cannot confirm 100% that these are CPD and not killies since it is a community tank, but the CPD are more established and in greater numbers so I believe these to be CPD eggs and fry.

They start as clear little eggs.


They begin to grow inside the egg until you can see coloration beginning to develop and can see the folded shape of the larval fry.


Then, the egg hatches, and a clear shell is left behind.


Out of the egg, the yolk sac is still attached and the fry has minimal control over mobility as the swim bladder is not developed.


The fry consumes the egg sac and the features become much more clearly visible.


The fry continues to consume the egg sac, which becomes smaller as the eyes and other features develop more.


After a couple days, the fry begins free swimming, eating tiny food. They are still too small for vinegar eels at this point.


Eventually they grow large enough not to be eaten by the adults and go into the community tank.


They continue to grow rapidly, preying on seed shrimp, copepods, and other small organisms in the aquarium. They readily accept vinegar eels once large enough, and then baby brine. Once they can accept baby brine, they are about large enough to mix in with the adults since the adults will not eat food so large.

I have continued to harvest out eggs and fry from the moss tree and can say that it is a perfect device for breeding in the community tank. Since I am not breeding for profit/sale, the 10-30 eggs and fry I get every day are more than enough. My current concern is that changes in water parameters and unavailability of tiny food is preventing the fry from surviving. I cannot be sure, since they are small enough to escape the breeder box and hide throughout the shrimp tank I am housing them in. I am obtaining paramecium soon to help them along and may also switch to a mesh breeder to allow better monitoring of the fry.
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Last edited by ohaple; 08-16-2019 at 03:40 PM. Reason: More photos
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 05:05 PM
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I just use the smallest size of golden pearls, and occasional rotifers, generally if I see cpd fry and it doesn't get eaten it survives to adulthood.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobblebonk View Post
I just use the smallest size of golden pearls, and occasional rotifers, generally if I see cpd fry and it doesn't get eaten it survives to adulthood.
Thanks for weighing in. We are enjoying breeding them. In our 10g it was even better for survival so many survived on their own with 0 intervention. Now I am trying to get a more productive breeding process going so that I can fill out our tank more and also potentially work in trade with the LFS for threadfin rainbows.

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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 07:52 PM
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Amazing pics! Great job
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Amazing pics! Great job
Thank you! It is a fun learning experience. I have bred some shrimp, snails, and terrestrial inverts, but this is my first real try at fish.
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