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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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Dots...

Hello everyone,

I recently did the DSM and everything went really well. After 6 weeks I flooded the tank, tested the water every day, did about a 5gal water change (it's a 32 gal tank). Anyway, params leveled out:

pH 6.6
NH4 0.25 (my tap water measures 0.5)
NO2 0
NH4 60
KH 2
GH 7

It's high tech tank.

Anyway, I added 9 amanos and that went well and they are are eating well and all alive as best I can tell (mind you, I never see all 9 at once, but there are lot of hiding spots in my tank).

A week after adding the amanos I added 4 Oto's (this was on Wednesday, it's Saturday). The Oto's are the only fish in the tank.

Today, I noticed this:





Please note I have a lot of micro bubbles in the water from the inline CO2 diffuser (as seen the first photo, those white dots in the water are bubbles). You can all see how much pearling is going on with the HC.

Anyway, is this something on the fish or is normal?

All 4 seems to have it but they are all very active and eating very well.

Any thoughts? If it is something, I want to catch it quickly. I'm not sure if it's new or always been there, it is hard to see with the naked eye they are so small and I only really noticed when I was taking photos today.

Thanks in advance!

All the best,

-Paul
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 09:22 PM
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Looks like beginnings of Ich.
Use a proprietary blend Ich medicine with active ingredient malachite green.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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I was super afraid to read that... Any suggestions on a readily commercially available product?
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 09:30 PM
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I like Seachem Paraguard. Its a great blend because it also contains acriflavine that helps with secondary bacteria that often is a result of where the parasite burrows into tissues.


Ich is highly curable. But, it increases very quickly so you must also act fast.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks. Any idea on a timeline. Wiki seems to indicate about 7 days. Stores are already closed here today and most aren't open tomorrow.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 09:38 PM
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If you wait two days your fish will be dead.

You can turn temperature up to 86 degrees. High heat can often work as well. I dont like to use the heat method myself becuase high heat spreads bacteria quicker through tissues. But, having no alternative, high heat will work as well. Make sure have supplemental air- air-stone as the heat will lower dissolved oxygen in water.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks again. I don't have an air stone, but I can raise the heat to 84 or or 86. Should I stop Co2 in the mean time?

I should be able to get something tomorrow afternoon.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheloveofcrabs View Post
Thanks again. I don't have an air stone, but I can raise the heat to 84 or or 86. Should I stop Co2 in the mean time?

I should be able to get something tomorrow afternoon.
Yes, stop all Co2, fertilizing, etc... and take out any chemical medias may have that will take medicine from water column. Be sure to change water frequently - at least 25% every other day to lower parasite load- vacuuming substrate if can. I know that is difficult with planted tank. If cannot- the water changes a must.

Do not use high heat and medication together!
Use high heat, then, when get medicine, turn heat back down. Together they will severely lower the ability of the fish to take up oxygen. You may want to pick up an air-pump/stone. They are relatively inexpensive and you will find you need it when medicating fish.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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Understood.

And thank you again.

I've cranked up the heat and I am raising it over the next hour to 86 and turned off my CO2. Since I am heating the tank should I not pursue something like Paraguard tomorrow? Or get the Paraguard tomorrow and lower the temp then?
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 10:59 PM
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I do not like high heat for treating Ich on fish because, like I said, the likelihood of secondary bacteria spreading quickly. Many times it is not the parasite itself that kills the fish, but the secondary bacterial infections. The higher the heat, the quicker bacteria spreads in a fish already compromised by the damage the parasite is doing to the fish. The Ich parasite, once you see it on the body of the fish, has already proliferated under the gill cover ( this is where they first attack the fish) and is already working to compromise the oxygen-uptake and immunity of fish.
Better to keep your temperature lower and treat with a product with malachite green which kills the parasite at the free-swimming stage. In addition, the acriflavine makes the tissues that the parasite fed on inhospitable to bacterial growth. It is not an antibiotic- but, an antibacterial.

But, it is your decision, there are many people that use the heat method alone with good results. I prefer not to because of the reasons stated. So, I would advise doing the heat until get med- then use med only.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you. I really appreciate your detailed reply.

I will leave the heat high then over night and lower it tomorrow and get something for the ich.

Again, I really appreciate your guidance.

One more thing... it looks as though all the meds for ich aren't shrimp safe. Aside aquqretine is there another option?
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Last edited by Darkblade48; 06-02-2019 at 09:30 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 11:32 PM
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I dont know anything about shrimp- never have had them. Maybe someone else will chime in regarding that.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 11:40 PM Thread Starter
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Yes. Hopefully.

Thank you again.

Just a quick update. Ich-x "seems" to be invert safe according to Cory at aquarium co-op. I can get "Quick Ich-X" tomorrow but not the normal one you see on his site.

Does anyone know if this is also invert safe:



I've also order a UV sterilizer to use for the next few weeks.

Finally as far as oxygen in the water I've raised my lily return pipe so it is a little out of the water causing a lot of agitation (and a little bit of splashing, but that's okay for now).

Last edited by Darkblade48; 06-02-2019 at 09:30 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Just an update. So far the Oto's are doing well: active and eating.

The temp is now at 887F and I've added a 5w UV sterilizer. What worked out well is the outflow of the sterilizer has air intake tube so that solved my air stone issue in one device.

I have Ich-x as well, but I am scared to add it with my amano's- it says right on the label that may be harmful to inverts and the heat + UV should be enough from everything I've been reading... Fingers crossed.

On a "positive" side I am pretty sure I am dealing with ich versus another white dot disease as they have spread.

Finally, what is interesting and really should be known is that the dial on heaters, and those $1.99 floating thermometers are totally inaccurate. My glass thermometer reads 92 and my Hydor 300w in-line heater is set to 89. I know I am actually at 87, however, because I have been testing with a very accurate professional cooking thermometer.

A good, accurate thermometer is harder to come by than one might think and it's importance may be somewhat overlooked in the hobby.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheloveofcrabs View Post
Just an update. So far the Oto's are doing well: active and eating.

The temp is now at 887F and I've added a 5w UV sterilizer. What worked out well is the outflow of the sterilizer has air intake tube so that solved my air stone issue in one device.

I have Ich-x as well, but I am scared to add it with my amano's- it says right on the label that may be harmful to inverts and the heat + UV should be enough from everything I've been reading... Fingers crossed.

On a "positive" side I am pretty sure I am dealing with ich versus another white dot disease as they have spread.

Finally, what is interesting and really should be known is that the dial on heaters, and those $1.99 floating thermometers are totally inaccurate. My glass thermometer reads 92 and my Hydor 300w in-line heater is set to 89. I know I am actually at 87, however, because I have been testing with a very accurate professional cooking thermometer.

A good, accurate thermometer is harder to come by than one might think and it's importance may be somewhat overlooked in the hobby.
The most accurate heater I have used is this one. Pricey, but extremely reliable and accurate.

Edit: I see that the reviews are not good- but, in my experience the best heater Ive ever used.



https://www.marinedepot.com/JBJ_True...FITETC-vi.html

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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