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post #61 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 12:35 AM
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Oh man, this one is getting me even more than your discus photos. When I had my LFS I ordered a dozen wild altums from a trans-shipper and they came in much larger than expected. I had to put them in a 125 planted display (with tiny fish, think the biggest thing not a catfish was rasbora hets). I was carefully feeding them frozen so that all the little chilis and CPDs and such would be off the menu but when I went to feed those little guys flakes, the altums seemed to eat flake better than anything! This has been a decade ago but to memory, I lost 1 out of a dozen the first week or so but the rest absolutely took off. I bet I didn't have them 2-3 months when two paired off in the display tank and a customer bought the lot of them -it was one of those rare times I was sad to sell fish. I never heard back from that guy and always wondered if he spawned them or raised up fry. But something to keep in perspective is when I was a kid in the 70's all the books talked about P. scalare being almost impossible to breed in captivity and they're practically convict cichlids now. I wish you the best with these and look forward to updates.

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Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
They retreat into the plants and I dont see them again until I restart the tank again.
So, yes, I think they are not much into the water change routine. Unlike my tetras who dive in and out of the water stream-while I am refilling and swim up and down the python tube as it drains the tank. Crazy little kamikazes.
Water changes are one of my favorite things about this hobby, and make me almost miss having 130 tanks. So many fish get dramatic at this time! Danios act like your hand isn't even in there, while L calvus all hide for a day after a water change; and white clouds almost always spawned whenever I'd add cooler water to refill! They certainly all take it differently.
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post #62 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Reef View Post
Oh man, this one is getting me even more than your discus photos. When I had my LFS I ordered a dozen wild altums from a trans-shipper and they came in much larger than expected. I had to put them in a 125 planted display (with tiny fish, think the biggest thing not a catfish was rasbora hets). I was carefully feeding them frozen so that all the little chilis and CPDs and such would be off the menu but when I went to feed those little guys flakes, the altums seemed to eat flake better than anything! This has been a decade ago but to memory, I lost 1 out of a dozen the first week or so but the rest absolutely took off. I bet I didn't have them 2-3 months when two paired off in the display tank and a customer bought the lot of them -it was one of those rare times I was sad to sell fish. I never heard back from that guy and always wondered if he spawned them or raised up fry. But something to keep in perspective is when I was a kid in the 70's all the books talked about P. scalare being almost impossible to breed in captivity and they're practically convict cichlids now. I wish you the best with these and look forward to updates.


Water changes are one of my favorite things about this hobby, and make me almost miss having 130 tanks. So many fish get dramatic at this time! Danios act like your hand isn't even in there, while L calvus all hide for a day after a water change; and white clouds almost always spawned whenever I'd add cooler water to refill! They certainly all take it differently.
I never appreciated Angels until I received these Altums. These guys are intelligent- bursting with curiosity. I dont think mine are of exceptional quality- but, I wouldn't know. They were the last of a group that the Wetspot had. regardless- I love them. They will be going over to my 180 gallon here shortly. If I see a pairing/breeding behaviors- Ill move them back to the 60 gallon and see if they will spawn.

Have you known of anyone that has had a successful spawn? I haven't heard of it- but, I imagine it happens because I have seen F1's and F2's for sale over the years. It must still be challenging or there would be more Altum's available in the F1-F2 groupings.

Mine have taken well to flake- but there favorite is freeze-dried blackworms w/ spirulina or frozen blood-worms.
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180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #63 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 01:53 AM
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I never appreciated Angels until I received these Altums. These guys are intelligent- bursting with curiosity. I dont think mine are of exceptional quality- but, I wouldn't know.
I think those are lovely, and at very worst -even if they weren't ideal fish -they would still have the genes of wild altums. I'm no fish beauty judge but those look fantastic to me. I too thought that mine were much more "alert" for lack of a better word than regular angels, which practically have the personality of a big tetra -I either pace or I expect food (and I don't mean that in a bad way, angelfish lovers!). But a bigger part may be that being one of the few fry that got out of the way of so many teeth and jaws and beaks and talons... and survived. I doubt if you got a 2nd generation that it would be near as wary having followed a hand for food its entire life and rarely being spooked.

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Have you known of anyone that has had a successful spawn? I haven't heard of it- but, I imagine it happens because I have seen F1's and F2's for sale over the years. It must still be challenging or there would be more Altum's available in the F1-F2 groupings.
I have personally seen an altum owner get eggs 25 years ago! Assuming that these were P altum, and I didn't know one angel from the other at the time admittedly. But I worked for a discus & angel breeder and LFS owner in Durham NC in the early 90's, and he got altums in all the time. Back then even P. scalare was cheaper wild caught and accounted for all you saw in stores, unless it was one of those black, veiltail, or solid whites that cost 7.99. But he did get what we called altums to spawn. *If* I recall correctly he had better success keeping them in hot practically RO water like discus than any other way; for whatever that is worth and it's admittedly not much. He's died since, and this is the 1000th time I've wished I could call to ask him a question. We are talking 1992 at the latest here, so if people still aren't producing them that makes me feel like we are limited in some way in the aquarium with how we are working with these fish. I'm frustrated that I can't remember if they didn't hatch or the fry crashed. But spawn, yes. I know for a fact that happens and has for a long time barring these not being true P altum. And I'm 60% sure if I didn't sell mine I had a pair about to at least pair off and lay. Obviously the eggs being fertilized is key. Are people saying the fry won't live or the fish won't spawn in captivity at all? Because I have high hopes that they will spawn in captivity in the right conditions.
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Mine have taken well to flake- but there favorite is freeze-dried blackworms w/ spirulina or frozen blood-worms.
Alan fed a lot of live bloodworms, mine just loved big flakes like I could get in store use containers. I guess feed them whatever they want! So stoked to follow your journey!
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post #64 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Its been about 2.5 months since I put up a video of the Altums. Actually, what I was really wanting to show you was a particular Altum ( the alpha in tank) who is starting to show some red spotting near the shoulder. They are all growing well, eating heartily, and I have not had to medicate for anything. Which is a relief.

I checked my TDS in this tank out of curiosity because I hadn't checked in awhile. It was at 85! Which is the lowest it has been since I started checking periodically. It had ranged between 115-120. Maybe need to re-calibrate? Ill need to see if I have some distilled water tucked in somewhere. These Altums will be moved soon to the 180 gallon. Plan on getting some wild discus juveniles from a local guy here that has some nice ones. Just need to decide which ones. Most likely this Urubu. You need to scroll all the way down and hit "load more" to view the wilds.

https://www.aquaemart.com/shop

Anyways, here is a rough video of the Altum showing the red spotting.

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180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #65 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 11:59 PM
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Beautiful- that's a stunning fish already. How old are they now?
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post #66 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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Beautiful- that's a stunning fish already. How old are they now?
Thank you



I got them in December- so I have had them 5 months. Not sure how old they were when I got them- maybe a month- 2 months old? They were juveniles.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #67 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 12:11 AM
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So about half-grown? Man, it will be something to see what they look like as mature adults.
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post #68 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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As you can see of these adult Altums in this video ( please excuse the obnoxious music- lol!) : They get that distinctive nucal bump on head, they have red spots on sides of shoulder area, and their fins develop longer trailing filaments. Of course, they are also much thicker through the body.


180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #69 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 12:26 AM
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They are indeed beautiful!

Curious to know the parameters of the water you're keeping them in. Do the require super soft, acidic water? Assuming you can't just use California tap water......
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post #70 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 12:29 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, California tapwater .

My TDS ranges between 85- 120. Depending on time of year.
Ph 7.4
KH-3
GH 5
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180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #71 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 03:20 AM
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Yes, California tapwater .



My TDS ranges between 85- 120. Depending on time of year.

Ph 7.4

KH-3

GH 5


Thatís close to where Iím at in Apple Valley CA. I actually gotta use a GH booster with the tap water.


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post #72 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 03:25 AM Thread Starter
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Thatís close to where Iím at in Apple Valley CA. I actually gotta use a GH booster with the tap water.


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I bought some Equilibrium for the same, but I keep forgetting to use it.
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180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #73 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
Yes, California tapwater .

My TDS ranges between 85- 120. Depending on time of year.
Ph 7.4
KH-3
GH 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by varanidguy View Post
Thatís close to where Iím at in Apple Valley CA. I actually gotta use a GH booster with the tap water.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks, guys. Your water is a little softer up north. If I've deciphered my water report correctly, mine is KH 3.7 and dH 6.7. Nice to know even wild Altums can adapt to this.

Are you planning to breed yours? From what I've read, that's when it makes a difference....
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post #74 of 80 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, guys. Your water is a little softer up north. If I've deciphered my water report correctly, mine is KH 3.7 and dH 6.7. Nice to know even wild Altums can adapt to this.

Are you planning to breed yours? From what I've read, that's when it makes a difference....
If I see some strong pairing then I will certainly try. Yes, would need to use R/O for breeding.
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180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #75 of 80 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 04:55 AM Thread Starter
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I need to move these Altums to the 180... maybe tomorrow:



180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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