Betta Troubles - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 08:45 AM
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Mmm....this might be weird, but have saltwater dips for freshwater fish gone down the toilet in terms of treatment? I remember that they used to be recommended for most things from parasites/fungus due to osmotic pressures making them go pop, to bloating (making water rush out of the fish). If the bloating's more around the stomach area, then maybe it's a diet issue and daphnia would be a good fix (i.e. fiber)? But without pictures, like Nick said, we can't diagnose, and unlike in humans where we can treat the symptoms until we find a fix for the issue...I wouldn't do it with a fish.

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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 02:07 AM Thread Starter
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Good pictures today... his scales look a bit worse, and one seems to have fallen out (white spot). He's a little bloated in general (not in the belly much like in pics I've seen). His lip looks a little worn, and his fins look about the same as yesterday.

Any observations? I wasn't able to treat him at all today yet, gonna think about a epsom salt bath when I get home tonight.

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Bump: He's never been a pretty fish (more rugged and handsome type), but he looks a lot more worn out in the fins than the pictures of dropsy I've seen...
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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 02:55 AM
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You have a bacterial and fungal infection going on. Treat them one at a time. The dropsy is a bacterial infection; the white stuff in the betta's mouth is fungus infection, called mouth fungus. I would treat the fungus infection first, then when that is gone, water change 50%, then treat the dropsy until it is cured. Reason why I would do it this way is because the betta has to eat, and if it doesn't after two weeks (if it goes that long) then the betta will die of starvation.
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 02:57 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, got it, would Maracyn treat that? Or what would treat that?
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 03:02 AM
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If you can get API products, get anti-fungus and anti-bacteria, they are two separate medications that will treat the infections. I think that Maracyn would treat the bacteria and fungus infections, but I am not sure as I have never used the product.

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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 04:00 AM Thread Starter
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As far as I can understand, Maracyn is an anti-bacterial, and will treat things like fin rot and dropsy. So I will hit the LFS tomorrow, see if I can pick some anti-fungal too, and start treating that ASAP.

I'm having concerns about his swim bladder (either he's on the surface, or on the bottom, never swimming in between). I'm going to do an epsom salt bath tomorrow when the lights turn on, and see how that works for him. I'm also going to take out the amano and move it to either my hospital tank or my 20g high thats half stocked.

Just checked on him, he's sleeping on the surface of his tank, looking crummy, but sleeping.
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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 04:03 AM
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As far as I can understand, Maracyn is an anti-bacterial, and will treat things like fin rot and dropsy. So I will hit the LFS tomorrow, see if I can pick some anti-fungal too, and start treating that ASAP.

I'm having concerns about his swim bladder (either he's on the surface, or on the bottom, never swimming in between). I'm going to do an epsom salt bath tomorrow when the lights turn on, and see how that works for him. I'm also going to take out the amano and move it to either my hospital tank or my 20g high thats half stocked.

Just checked on him, he's sleeping on the surface of his tank, looking crummy, but sleeping.
Good plan. I would see if he will take a deshelled pea. Remember what I said about peas, they are a laxative for fish when they have swim bladder issues.

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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 08:25 AM
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So...we have: Mouth fungus, Dropsy, and Swim Bladder issues?

Here's some hope and wishes that he gets through all of this. I agree that you need to treat that fungus first. But some things to think about:

Why are you moving the shrimp to the hospital tank? I honestly think you should be treating the betta there since he's the sick one. I'd also consider doing multiple high volume water changes in the main tank in case there're spores or something infectious in the water. Plants do absorb medications, oftentimes with negative repercussions.

If the fungus ends up getting too thick, do consider trying to cut off as much as possible with tiny scissors. You can also use a qtip to wipe some off as well. Look up fish sedation with clove oil so you can operate quickly outside of the water.

I do agree that a deshelled pea is good for swim bladder issues, but bettas are carnivores, so I wouldn't be surprised about him not eating one; daphnia make a better source of fiber for carnivores IMO. However, I do not think he has swim bladder issues. If he's constantly trying to float to the top and sinking, or floating to the top and unsuccessfully swimming downward, he's got swim bladder issues. But by the way you describe it, he's just...being a betta.

Is that a missing scale that I see? Or is it simply miscolored?

What are your parameters (temp, pH, nitrogen cycle)?

Try not to be too hypochondriac with the betta. You're concerned, and I get that, but giving him a webmd's diagnosis is also harmful. Oftentimes, water changes and temperature changes can get a fish back from the grave, simply by better water quality.

Finally: as a preventative, try finding some Talisay/Catappa/Indian Almond leaves: they'll stain your water, but I swear that they're some of the best preventatives for soft water fish. They've got anti-bacterial properties, and help lower your pH; in conjunction with anti-fungal dried banana leaves, you've got a pretty good preventative for next time.

So many fish/plants/inverts to keep, not enough aquaria.
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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, lights are on for the day, and heres an update...

He's looking more bloated, more throughout his body than in his belly.

The white spot from yesterday has grown, and it looks like scales are missing (basically a hole in his side).

He's spending most of his time on the surface... floating around without moving his fins at all. More like a balloon than a fish...

I'm hesitant to give him a salt bath now, with the exposed skin on his side. Thoughts?
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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 04:44 PM
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Listen, I know you mean well, I and better aquarists than myself have tried many times to save bettas when they get like this.
It NEVER ends well. The fish is going to suffer until it drowns. I would put it down humanely using some clove oil.
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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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Two pics. Able to get a good look at his side. Where the scales seem to be missing, it's kind of white and tufty.

When he's facing the other way, there's no signs of distress besides being a little bloated. Honestly can't tell he has scales missing on the other side...

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Bump: @Nordic I understand that... and have considered it. At this point, I don't think it's the right move. He's still moving around, and comes up to the front of the glass to see me every time. If his behavior had changed signficantly (too lethargic, hiding away) I might have a different view point. All of his troubles seem fixable at this point. When that no longer seems possible, I will do the right thing.
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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 05:03 PM
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Alright, lights are on for the day, and heres an update...

He's looking more bloated, more throughout his body than in his belly.

The white spot from yesterday has grown, and it looks like scales are missing (basically a hole in his side).

He's spending most of his time on the surface... floating around without moving his fins at all. More like a balloon than a fish...

I'm hesitant to give him a salt bath now, with the exposed skin on his side. Thoughts?
Sounds like he is getting worse. Have you been able to get to the store and get the medication to treat his bacterial and fungus infection? Have you been able to get your hands on Aquarisol? If not, contact John Patakos. I gave you his email in a PM.

See if he will eat a deshelled pea. Another thing you can try is veggies, like green beans. There is a variety box of fish food, it has blood worms, brine shrimp, and veggies. There may even be a box of just veggies, get that if you can.

I would not give him a salt bath. I would keep up with the medication and water changes. Do the medication for however long it says, before doing water changes, so the medication has a chance to work, then repeat in necessary.

Fish are not just pets, fish are family and should be treated like family.
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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 05:17 PM
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Found this while googling your betta missing scales. The missing scales are septicemia.

As far as treatment, get it into a heated, filtered tank if it isn't in one already, remove the activated carbon from the filter, and begin dosing with one of the following: tetracycline (Maracyn TC, Fish Zole), Triple Sulfa, Trisufla, erythromycin (Maracyn) + minocycline (Maracyn 2), nitrofurazone (Furan 2), or kanamycin sulfate.

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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Tanks already sponge filtered and heated (mid to high 70s), so I will keep him there where the cycle is definitely present.

My order of "Fritz Aquatics 8 Count Mardel Maracyn 2 Treats" should be here today. My LFS doesn't open til 12, so heading there shortly.

Going to go get peas shortly too, will look for high fiber food he might eat at my LFS too...
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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 05:42 PM
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Sounds good. Hopefully your betta will take a turn for the better. Whatever you do, do not give up the fight. Your betta is fighting to stay alive and that is something that people cannot seem to see in any fish, just because they are suffering from a disease or multiple diseases doesn't mean they are not fighting to stay alive, you have to fight right along with them. Hope your betta gets better soon!

Fish are not just pets, fish are family and should be treated like family.
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