CO2 in jar underwater? - The Planted Tank Forum
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  • 2 Post By Joachimbates
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  • 4 Post By kevmo911
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-19-2015, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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CO2 in jar underwater?

Rather than bubbling CO2, which probably wastes 99.9+% of it, have people tried an inverted underwater container holding CO2 exposed to the water? If the enclosed bubble surface area remains constant and there is good tank circulation, the rate of diffusion would remain constant, and a steady-state CO2 level in the tank would be reached.

I don't have any idea how often one would have to replenish the CO2 in the vessel. One couldn't fill the vessel completely since nitrogen and oxygen would diffuse in to equilibrate with the CO2, but I don't know how long this would take, either. Another question would be whether CO2 dissolves into the water faster than nitrogen and oxygen diffuse into the CO2 bubble.


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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-19-2015, 07:43 PM
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Funny enough, this method you're talking of called the CO2 bell method is the least effective.

CO2 bubbled through the correct medium, (a diffuser in the tank or inline) is far more efficient!

Do a quick google of most efficient diffusers!


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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-19-2015, 08:11 PM
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I saw a while back someone using api test tubes for this exact purpose on a nano tank
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-19-2015, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachimbates View Post
Funny enough, this method you're talking of called the CO2 bell method is the least effective.

CO2 bubbled through the correct medium, (a diffuser in the tank or inline) is far more efficient!

Do a quick google of most efficient diffusers!


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Well, I'm not sure you're using the correct word. I'd say that using the bell method is extremely efficient, assuming you're not losing any CO2 bubbles out the bottom. So in terms of dissolved CO2 vs lost CO2, yes, it's efficient.

However, it's just not very effective. The amount of CO2 that can be dissolved is minimal using this method.

To the OP: using a regular airstone, you're correct, would be incredibly wasteful. The bubbles are just too big and go straight to the surface, losing most CO2 to the air. That's why diffusers exist - they've got much smaller pores, creating smaller, far less buoyant bubbles which get carried through the tank by current created by filters and/or powerheads. The longer the bubbles are in the tank, the more CO2 is dissolved. And the smaller the bubble, the more total surface area given the same total amount of CO2 than with bigger bubbles (you can do some geometric math to confirm this).

Basically, we use far too much CO2 to use a bell diffuser with. A reactor, however, can give you 100% dissolution, so zero CO2 goes to waste before it's dissolved.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-19-2015, 11:13 PM
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its all about surface area, the diffuser bubbles collectively have a MUCH GREATER surface area then bottom of a bubble stuck in a jar.

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-20-2015, 04:47 AM
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Well, I'm not sure you're using the correct word. I'd say that using the bell method is extremely efficient, assuming you're not losing any CO2 bubbles out the bottom. So in terms of dissolved CO2 vs lost CO2, yes, it's efficient.

However, it's just not very effective. The amount of CO2 that can be dissolved is minimal using this method.

To the OP: using a regular airstone, you're correct, would be incredibly wasteful. The bubbles are just too big and go straight to the surface, losing most CO2 to the air. That's why diffusers exist - they've got much smaller pores, creating smaller, far less buoyant bubbles which get carried through the tank by current created by filters and/or powerheads. The longer the bubbles are in the tank, the more CO2 is dissolved. And the smaller the bubble, the more total surface area given the same total amount of CO2 than with bigger bubbles (you can do some geometric math to confirm this).

Basically, we use far too much CO2 to use a bell diffuser with. A reactor, however, can give you 100% dissolution, so zero CO2 goes to waste before it's dissolved.

I do believe the term I used with the bell is "effective"

It's not effective because the dissolution rate is too slow for the water parameters to change enough for plant growth.


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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-20-2015, 04:56 AM
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theres one similar but uses a power head to pump water in the jar making the disolution rate higher, search for tom barr internal reactor
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-20-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Joachimbates View Post
I do believe the term I used with the bell is "effective"

It's not effective because the dissolution rate is too slow for the water parameters to change enough for plant growth.


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My bad, shouldn't have skimmed through it so quickly.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-20-2015, 02:03 PM
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My bad, shouldn't have skimmed through it so quickly.

Not too worry! I'm guilty of the same


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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 04:14 AM
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If you use a CO2 bell - you will soon find that the composition of the gasses in the bell has become same as that in the atmosphere. You will constantly need to replenish it with the gas of your choice.

Argyroneta aquatica is an expert in the field of the use of the underwater gas bell.

ps I hope none of you would want a tank display with it. It is fascinating to watch though and appropriate for a planted tank.

If you have a choice, you have a problem, till you elect your choice. No choice, no problem, only consequences, learn to live with them.
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