Question about joining pvc with cement - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-15-2015, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Question about joining pvc with cement

Im making a rex grigg type reactor and am wondering about joining the pvc fittings with the pipe
Regarding the use of pvc cement, i take it using a primer is a must, should i go for pressure cement or non pressure?
When i make the joints should i go piece by piece ie join pipe to coupling then let it cure, join fitting to coupling and cure etc ?
Or can i do all the joints on one end at the same time ie pipe coupling fitting cement them up and bang into place?
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-15-2015, 06:10 PM
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I did all mine like a minute after the other ones were done. Don't do them ALL at once but you don't have to wait more than a minute before having finished one to go onto the next one. Have no idea what kind of cement/primer I used (something by Oatey...) but it sealed prettymuch immediately (<5 seconds) after pushing the pvc pieces together. Stuff is insanely strong - it literally fuses the PVC together and there is no chance of it ever coming apart.

I highly doubt you will be running extreme amounts a pressure to make pressure cement warranted in this application. That stuff is for serious very high pressure plumbing systems I am pretty sure.

Just make sure to do it outside... That stuff is nasty


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-15-2015, 06:31 PM
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I'm not sure about Australia, but pretty much all the PVC cements around here are suitable for pressurized applications, if used with a primer...

I use Oatey regular (gold label) or medium (black label), both of which are approved for pressurized lines (although PVC itself isn't approved for fresh water supply plumbing).

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-15-2015, 07:10 PM
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The primer isn't a necessity for 99.999% of aquarium applications. It's just extremely rare that the sort of pressure it was meant for will every be approached. That being said, it won't do any harm unless you have issues with the color purple.

I use Oatey General Purpose which works on both PVC and CPVC.

Just use PVC-cutting pliers, test fit, remember to wipe the glue that comes out of the joint along the entire circumference of the pipe/fitting line and you'll be just fine.

You can get away with gluing a couple of pieces indoors, but beyond that you're asking for serious issues. Keep both cans closed tightly.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-16-2015, 02:36 AM
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I never use primer as most of my pipe and fittings are less than a year or two old. If the pipe is clean and somewhat new so that there is not a layer of oxidation on it, no primer needed. you can pretty much do the joints all at once IF you prep them first. Do get some medium fine sandpaper and do sand all the parts which join each other. inside the fittings as well as the outside of the pipe. This gives a place for the cement to begin softening the PVC. It is a weld, not a glue joint in that they do melt together. Sand, test fit, apply glue quickly to both parts and slap together quickly. Hold for like 20 seconds if the pipe is more than 1" or so. They can begin to work back out if you let them go too quick.
Rather than worry about leaks, I find it more trouble to make sure that the elbows are pointed in just the right direction.
For a giggle, take a cheap fitting like an el, glue it on a pipe and wait 30 seconds, then try to get it off? If you are working faster than the cement, you're a whiz!
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-16-2015, 03:36 AM
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To get the angled fittings (90, 45, Tees...) lined up:
Put together the pipe and fittings that need to line up without glue.
Put a piece of pipe, perhaps a foot or so, into the dry end of the fitting (make sure no glue touches it).
These non-glued pieces will give you a longer mark to look at to see if the fittings are lined up.
Eyeball the line up and mark the fittings and pipe where you want to glue it. Extend the mark a bit along the pipe- when you glue it, the pipe will usually go farther inside the fitting, and you need to see the marks.

The red pipe has no glue.
Line up the red pipes to make sure the fittings are lined up parallel to each other.
(Yes, I know- Paint is not as good a drawing program as any of several others)
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-16-2015, 05:36 AM
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If you were working on a potable water supply and it needed to be inspected (in the States) the inspector is looking for the purple. Not primed it will fail. That being said I am on well water and I rarely use primer.
I never sand the pipe and don't know any plumbers that do. It is a solvent weld.

Just make sure whenever possible that you give the glued pieces a 1/4 turn. It helps to spread the solvent between the parts better. Glue the outside of the pipe and the inside of the fitting.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-16-2015, 07:04 PM
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A way to line up the pipes that seems a bit easier? When my group has a large number of fittings to glue up we use pencil marks. The sanding helps to get the pipe fully seated up to the stops in the fittings as well as remove any dirt or oxidation. If the pipe ends are not sanded, there is often a ridge of burrs left by the power tools used to cut the pipe. These burrs can interfere with seating the pipe fully. Takes less than a minute so we feel it is worthwhile and takes less time/effort than the primer. We do not use PVC for potable water supply due to the perceived lack of quality. When we test fit things we lay all the parts out on a level surface like the floor and draw pencil marks at the fittings.

We just use a lead pencil but for the drawing, I've used colors.
One mark (Green?)on the pipe at the point where the pipe exits the fitting hub, parallel and flush with the hub. This gives you a visual for how far you want the pipe to slide into the hub to meet the stop. (Red) We also add a mark on the fitting that also extends out onto the pipe. (Blue) When turning and adjusting the final location, we just look at the two marks. First to see that the pipe has actually bottomed in the hub and second to see that we have the pipe lined correctly. If it is a large enough job to warrant two guys, one can test fit and mark, while the other cuts and sands the ends. Then when they are ready one adds the cement while the second slaps them together.
I no longer do the actual work but then I see no reason not to use the system when I do my tank work.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-17-2015, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantedRich View Post
A way to line up the pipes that seems a bit easier? When my group has a large number of fittings to glue up we use pencil marks. The sanding helps to get the pipe fully seated up to the stops in the fittings as well as remove any dirt or oxidation. If the pipe ends are not sanded, there is often a ridge of burrs left by the power tools used to cut the pipe. These burrs can interfere with seating the pipe fully. Takes less than a minute so we feel it is worthwhile and takes less time/effort than the primer. We do not use PVC for potable water supply due to the perceived lack of quality. When we test fit things we lay all the parts out on a level surface like the floor and draw pencil marks at the fittings.
Most new construction here is cpvc for both hot and cold. Repipes are pretty much all pex.
Most plumbers here for the small stuff use a hand cutter. No burr to worry about. Without the primer it will not pass the plumbing inspection. My last house I had galvanized. Wound up repiping that one but since I did the work myself I used cpvc both sides.

Let me add one thing. Rich has a way of gluing pvc and I have mine then there is code with primer. Neither Rich nor myself are wrong. We just have different ways of getting it done and both will work. And both will hold. Try out both ways and do what works for you. Just don't forget that 1/4 turn.

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Last edited by Darkblade48; 09-17-2015 at 02:22 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-17-2015, 05:14 PM
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Both work and when things need inspection, it is far easier to go with what the inspector wants. But for a practical purpose, the inspection is not the best way in some cases. Inspections for municipal codes are often more a political measure than a practical one. Depending on who has the input at the meeting where the codes are revised, some can get totally weird. I worked the West St. Louis county area where the standards were set more to define who could afford to build there as much as how the plumbing might work. That left them being very specific that copper pipe was to be used but then they went one step further to specify that pipes were to be sized by the number of bedrooms. Anybody who thinks a service line needs to be larger than 2"???? It does keep the price of a new house in West county up.
I look at primer as a good thing to use when required or if there is a practical need but in many cases the inspector wants it to show so he doesn't really have to look at the quality but just breeze through. You can see purple primer from 20 feet away and it doesn't help us so I leave it off my tank plumbing.
And then if you happen to spill it on the carpeting it can REALLY get expensive.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-18-2015, 01:56 AM
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And then if you happen to spill it on the carpeting it can REALLY get expensive.
Yeah the wife will run up that CC bill way high as a lesson won't she?

Dilution is the solution for the pollution.
Quote me as saying I was misquoted.
Once you get rid of integrity the rest is a piece of cake.
Here's to our wives and sweethearts - may they never meet.
If you agreed with me we'd both be right.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-18-2015, 02:26 AM
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I sand the ends, even when I am using a PVC cutter. I have had the PVC cutter leave the end not quite right. And if I use other tools then definitely sand to remove the burrs.
I use primer if the pipe is getting old. Then I will cut and set up several fittings at once, prime them all, then glue them all. It is more time consuming to keep switching from one can to the other. Primer might not still be wet when I get to the last ones.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-18-2015, 03:07 AM
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I usually just use this.

http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G5618-Deburring-Length-blades/dp/B0000DD4CY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1442541904&sr=8-2&keywords=deburring+tool

Zip around the I.D. of the cut, then around the O.D.
Quick and easy.

Last edited by The Big Buddha; 09-18-2015 at 03:07 AM. Reason: Fix
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