CO2 not entering the housing of Cerges reactor - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
tharsis's Avatar
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln, RI
Posts: 1,202
CO2 not entering the housing of Cerges reactor

I just built a cerges reactor with the 10" housing, attached to a sun sun 304B filter. I am using an aquatek regulator with a 40 psi working pressure, but the bubbles aren't making it into my reactor unless I REALLY crank up the rate of bubbles. With a rate of 2-3 bps, there is no flow into the reactor.

I have built one of these before using a milwaukee regulator and a similar housing with no problems on the same tank (same height).

I am wondering if the aquatek isn't keeping the pressure up enough to get it through? The gauge is steady though... Does it instead mean that I have a leak in my tubing somewhere?

Thanks for any help!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tharsis is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 01:19 AM
Algae Grower
 
oldpunk78's Avatar
 
PTrader: (111/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Anderson, CA
Posts: 6,404
Is there a check valve that could be in backwards?
oldpunk78 is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 02:29 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
tharsis's Avatar
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln, RI
Posts: 1,202
the check valves are in correctly, so it isn't that. I put the whole set-up in the fish tank itself to make sure that CO2 was coming out of the tubing, which it was. But when I attach it to the cerges, the CO2 doesn't make it out.

I am assuming that the over pressure from the head (roughly 2 feet) is preventing the CO2 from entering the reactor and I don't have enough pressure from the regulator to overcome that... unless I blast it. I will do a soapy water test tomorrow to check the connections in the CO2 line. I will also check my milwaukee regulator on this configuration to see if it works.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tharsis is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 03:35 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 132
How is the co2 getting INTO the reactor? An inline diffuser before the reactor? Somewhere directly on the reactor?
RomansFiveEight is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
tharsis's Avatar
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln, RI
Posts: 1,202
I pulled the line through the air release valve in the top of the reactor.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tharsis is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 12:50 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 132
Where is the air release valve located? On mine, it was located on what should be the output (the 'input' of the housing becomes the 'output'). If that's the case, that's the wrong side and it would make sense that water would be pressing against it.

The idea behind the cerges is to use the filter 'backwards' and have some sort of tube or pipe in the middle, so water flows INTO the 'output', down through the tube or pipe, then back up, then out of the "input". On mine the air release valve is in that 'input' so that would be the wrong place for the airline. I drilled a hole directly in the middle of the top which put the airline right at the beginning of the water flow.
RomansFiveEight is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
tharsis's Avatar
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln, RI
Posts: 1,202
yeah, that is how mine is set-up. The air release valve is located by the input.

It is this one

So the water is flowing past it, not into it. That is why I am thinking it is the backpressure from the overlying water which is preventing the CO2 from entering the housing. But the psi on my regulator should be more than enough to overcome it...which leads me to believe I have a leak somewhere in the tubing. I will test after my morning coffee and report back!

I have built several of these reactors in the past with no problems, so I am confused as to what might be going on.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tharsis is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 01:04 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 132
A leak is very possible. Good old soapy water and a brush!

But I'm confused as to how it would work anyway. The whole idea is to increase the dwell time of the co2. So water flows down the tube after going into the output, then back up AROUND the tube, and out the input. If you have the co2 on the "input" (actually output) side, then it's not going to really be dwelling in the reactor. Unless I'm missing something, that seems 'backwards'. If you have the water flowing into the input and out the output, then the flow is going to be impeded and it won't force the co2 to dwell.

I have a very similar one and it works quite well with the airline tubing directly in the top. The other advantage is that I could drill a hole barely big enough for the tubing, so I had to pull it through quite tight and the tubing by itself makes a pretty good seal; I still used silicone as an extra 'boost', on both the inside and the outside. I also screwed-tight and siliconed the air release valve because I found co2 was leaking out of it when the reactor was running.
RomansFiveEight is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
tharsis's Avatar
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln, RI
Posts: 1,202
So this is how it is set-up which has worked well for me in the past...i think, I may have to go and check the others to make sure, it's been awhile haha.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CO2 setup.jpg
Views:	160
Size:	22.1 KB
ID:	517377  



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tharsis is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 02:20 PM
Captain
 
Immortal1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,413
Very similar to mine in design except I am injecting the cO2 in the line just before the reactor. Also for what its worth, I am only running 20psi on the regulator and that is more than enough to offset the 3' of head pressure I have on my tank.

So, you say when you pull the tube out of the reactor you get bubbles in the tank so we know the regulator is doing something.

Looking at the filter that you linked to I see it is an opaque filter. So my next question is how do you "know" the cO2 is not making it into the reactor? It is a silly question, but one that I have to ask. On my setup, it is pretty obvious the cO2 is making it in. bear in mind, in this video you really cannot "hear" the cO2 making it into the reactor. All I really hear is the filter running. Also, I am running somewhere around 7+ bps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LunleNWDeIo


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- GreggZ Tank Parameters
Immortal1 is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
tharsis's Avatar
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln, RI
Posts: 1,202
That is a good point, one that I thought about for awhile... which is why I have ordered a clear filter on amazon!

But there are a couple things that make me 'think' that the CO2 isn't entering the reactor.

1) If I back-fill the airline with water a little bit by separating the checkvalve and reattaching it, I can monitor the bubble flow once the CO2 is turned on. If there is positive pressure, I can see the CO2 bubbles moving down the line into the reactor. When I decrease the flow, the bubbles stop moving, suggesting that the pressure can't overcome the head pressure.

2) I can see a little bit of water from the reactor in the tubing, right where the tubing enters the reactor. I can even see the level bobbing a little bit with the flow of the water from the filter. When I increase the CO2 flow, the disapears.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tharsis is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 02:47 PM
Captain
 
Immortal1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,413
Interesting. I do not have a check valve between the reactor and my inline bubble counter.
When the water in the bubble counter gets low, I loosen the top of the bubble counter and water flows from the reactor thru the cO2 tubing back to the bubble counter and fills it up. When i turn the cO2 back on, I can see the gas push the water in the tubing back into the reactor. Its not super fast movement, but in only takes 30 seconds or so to go 2'. Again, I am running 20psi.

Given how you installed your tubing into the reactor, the reactor "may" have a greater influence on the operating pressure of the cO2. In my system (early part of video), you can see my cO2 is injected perpendicular to the flow of the water. Does this lower my need for psi?? Don't know. I would think psi in the tubing and reactor are the same and therefor irrelevant between our systems.

"I can even see the level bobbing a little bit with the flow of the water from the filter."
Interesting, i would think at 20-30psi the cO2 would simply push the water right back into the reactor. This statement does seem to make me believe your cO2 is "not" going into the reactor.

"When I decrease the flow, the bubbles stop moving," Decreasing the "flow" or bps should only effect how fast the bubbles get to the reactor (more cO2 volume within a given space - the tubing). Your psi is unchanged so I would assume the rate of cO2 movement would slow down, but is should not stop.

Thought...
if you fill the tubing with tank water, set the regulator at 20 psi, then adjust your pbs to something higher like almost a stead stream of bubbles, what happens to the water in the tubing?

Bump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOPY9EAdyUw

This is my flow rate


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- GreggZ Tank Parameters
Immortal1 is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
tharsis's Avatar
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln, RI
Posts: 1,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal1 View Post
Thought...
if you fill the tubing with tank water, set the regulator at 20 psi, then adjust your pbs to something higher like almost a stead stream of bubbles, what happens to the water in the tubing?

Bump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOPY9EAdyUw

This is my flow rate
Yeah, if I increase the flow (higher than what you have in your video), it will all go into the reactor, I just don't want a torrent of CO2! I always figured even if I have 1 bubble/sec, it should enter the reactor regardless. Atleast that is what I have experienced in the past.

Anyways, I tested the tubing and couldn't find a leak, the tubing is fairly old though, so I think I will just replace it and see.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tharsis is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
tharsis's Avatar
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln, RI
Posts: 1,202
So I switched out the aquatek regulator/5#tank combo with another milwaukee regulator/20#tank combo that I have on another tank...using the same CO2 line as before and it works fine. I can keep the flow at 2-3 bps and it enters the reactor no problems.

Must be something with the aquatek regulator.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tharsis is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-13-2015, 08:31 PM
Captain
 
Immortal1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,413
Good to know that you were able to test things using another regulator setup. Interesting summary with the Aquatek


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- GreggZ Tank Parameters
Immortal1 is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome