how bad it is to supply co2 in filter? (cerges reactor in filter) - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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how bad it is to supply co2 in filter? (cerges reactor in filter)

i know its always recommended to dissolve co2 after filter and powerhead, but since i see lots of advantages in doing the oposit i ask this.

scenario 1: most cilyndric shaped external filters already are constructed same as cerges reactor. so we can just pump co2 in its upper chamber of filter. this is what i am doin for a week already. basically i have cerges reactor that takes up no space and does not restricts flow. disadvantage is i lower HP inside my filter, but does it really matters?

scenario 2: cerges, rex and so on reactors all work on same principle- water flows the oposite direction with respect to where co2 settles because of archimedes principle. this means that it makes sense to fit reactor on filter input tube, because that way you wont use any elbows at all. advantage will be no flow restriction. disadvantage: again lowered PH in filter

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 02:05 PM
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Ongoing very low pH at the site of CO2 and air in the impeller are not good ideas.


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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okedokey View Post
Ongoing very low pH at the site of CO2 and air in the impeller are not good ideas.
you will not get co2 on impeller in any of the cases.
PH however will be slightly lower than in tank, but only slightly, since we pump water at high amounts( 10x volume per hour) it must pretty much even out in whole system. (or it must not )
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 02:53 PM
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I've been doing this for over a year now on all my project tanks that operate w/ a canister filter. I use a inline CO2 atomizer on the intake side of the canister & adjust the CO2 to a flow rate of 0.50 bps or less. During recent canister cleanings have seen no impeller damage, no o-ring seal degradation or experienced any leakage and have seen not "burping" of CO2 bubbles or misting from the outflow of my violet pipes. CO2 levels are not going to be any higher in the canister than in the tank because the water is continuously flowing thru & not standing in the canister.

My indicators for proper CO2 tank levels are the plants are "pearling", resultant O2 micro bubbles are collecting at the water surface & finally, the fish and shrimp are all swimming/behaving normally. The results from this method of CO2 injection on all 5 of my tanks that operate w/ canister filters, dispels those myths regarding canister filter damage & tank misting. The only bubbles I've seen are from plant "pearling". IMO, the key to this method is the CO2 flow rate. Hope this helps.

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastMaster View Post
I've been doing this for over a year now on all my project tanks that operate w/ a canister filter. I use a inline CO2 atomizer on the intake side of the canister & adjust the CO2 to a flow rate of 0.50 bps or less.
That seems like a very low rate compared to what others do.
Higher rates may or may not change things.

I do agree that there probably are no mechanical issues but micro-bubbles and burping is still a possibly w/ higher bubble counts.
I can "see" many small bubbles trapped that eventually get big enough to break free and "burp".

Easiest thing is to try intake first, see how it works out at a a particular bubble rate. Then switch to outtake if problematic..

Running an impeller dry is obviously bad thing.. but then you'd know that right away..

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 10:19 PM
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I run 2 bps thru an eheim 2211. I do get the occasional burp some days but generally experience 100% dissolution with no visible bubbles being sent into the tank. Filter seems fine and I see no unusual wear on the impeller or shaft. Been running this for around six months.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 11:10 PM
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Tried that and the canister burps. I built a DIY Cerges reactor and... BAM! I no longer have burping or the 7-Up look. CO2 dissolves superbly!

There are Rex Grigg and Cerges style reactors. I have both styles and I prefer the Cerges.


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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 11:51 PM
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Yeah at 0.5 bps you wouldnt worry. I run mine at a 'stream' of bubbles.


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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-22-2015, 02:40 AM
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Yeah, me too. 5, 6, 7 BPS? Not really sure.


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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-22-2015, 06:50 AM Thread Starter
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what im talking is not simply supply co2 to filter. i've reconfigured input/output of filter tubes and filter media to get actual cerges reactor in it. here's picture. you wont get any burp or mist this way because its the same old 100% dissolve cerges reactor there.


Anyhow big thanks guys for confirming "co2 in filter boogeyman" is not real
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-22-2015, 07:57 AM
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cerges operates in reverse flow than what you diagramed, thats pretty easy for a big air bubble to form at the top with no way to escape and out of the flow where it dont dissolve well.. oah if you have a top mounted pump you just vapor locked it.

common sense says inject/dissolve it after your bio filter and pump mechanics, if your doing it correctly it works perfectly fine.. otherwords pre-filter is a band-aid to a poor design and may lead to more problems... as far as I can tell its only the guys with 120g+ tanks that have to really work hard to get a ton of co2 dissolved well inline.

Engineers are not boogiemen.. why dont you spend $25 on a filter housing then combine a Purigen and Co2 reactor and leave your canister for bio media, just a suggestion.


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Last edited by nayr; 04-22-2015 at 08:07 AM. Reason: suggestion
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-22-2015, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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being engineer myself(unrelated, microwave field though) im more than happy to hear some actual facts what exactly happens when there is a bit co2 presented in gas form in filters upper chamber, rather than some myths people keep passing to each other.

any sort of gas on impeller is a big no because it lowers pomps efficiency. my pump is inline in this case.

Archimedes law still works no matter if it happens in inner or outer chamber of reactor. either has its benefits. in inner you get more flow through co2, in outer you get more volume so reactor can be shorter in length. in my case i get gas bubble buildup less than 1cm^3 in volume and i tried upto 5bps.

i did explain advantages over classic build in first post. and those were not to save money, nor time.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-22-2015, 02:22 PM
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A dry impeller when a CO2 bubble goes through it can break the shaft, cause noise and waste CO2.


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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-22-2015, 02:36 PM
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Rheims 2075, 80 gallon tank, CO2 directly into intake. A few bubbles, no damage or burping. CO2 levels good all around.

This way, no reduction in flow, no extra equipment to power, plumb or leak. Works for me.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpfaff View Post
Rheims 2075, 80 gallon tank, CO2 directly into intake. A few bubbles, no damage or burping. CO2 levels good all around.

This way, no reduction in flow, no extra equipment to power, plumb or leak. Works for me.
bps?


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