I'm obsessing over high CRI diodes. - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-15-2015, 01:17 AM Thread Starter
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I'm obsessing over high CRI diodes.

I keep hoping they will do some larger diodes, like 1 or 3W..
but anyways they now have some more data sheets posted for their SMD ones..
Unfortunately only the .5w 5730's interest me, and it is unfortunate because some of the smaller ones have even more intriguing spectrums..
http://store.yujiintl.com/collection...-unit-1000-pcs

But for everyone's interest I made a composite of the 5630's spectrum w/ cree warm and neutral diode spectrum overlaid..

One "color" is still not perfect but....






Enjoy..........

Oh and every spectrum is 95+ CRI....

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-15-2015, 02:16 AM
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Jeff, help a "Layman" out here. Does the 4000K graph have a "more complete" or "fuller" spectrum than the others?
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-15-2015, 02:28 AM Thread Starter
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Jeff, help a "Layman" out here. Does the 4000K graph have a "more complete" or "fuller" spectrum than the others?
Depends how you flatten the bumpys in your head..


I personally lean to the 5600k..

this is a t12 but it is another good chart:

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-15-2015, 02:36 AM
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OK. question for you. As you are aware Kessil A360s increase in intensity and color ranges from 6000K to 9000K. As of now, my controller is set to gradually increase both to Noon and then gradually decrease both to 6 PM. I am trying to imitate the sun's variation throughout the day as best i can. Should my color stay at 6000K while the intensity increases and decreases?

Thoughts
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-15-2015, 02:43 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dcutl002 View Post
OK. question for you. As you are aware Kessil A360s increase in intensity and color ranges from 6000K to 9000K. As of now, my controller is set to gradually increase both to Noon and then gradually decrease both to 6 PM. I am trying to imitate the sun's variation throughout the day as best i can. Should my color stay at 6000K while the intensity increases and decreases?

Thoughts
mmmffffffttt...


I got to say it.. The Kessils are incapable of imitating, even on a small scale, the daily Kelvin shifts of sunlight..The best they can do is noon or cloudy noon..

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-15-2015, 02:45 AM
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LOL! Just thought I'd ask. Looks like 6000K is the "sweet spot" for color temp.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-15-2015, 02:54 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dcutl002 View Post
LOL! Just thought I'd ask. Looks like 6000K is the "sweet spot" for color temp.
From a K point of view they cover the sweet spot..What exactly, spectrum wise that looks like is on a "need to know" basis..



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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-15-2015, 03:49 AM
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Hey Jeff, I really enjoy your posts. Will you be using the Yuji LEDs to create an aquarium light? If so will you take some comparison pics of the lights?

Are there any other manufacturers that make high CRI LEDs?
Also, if you have used high CRI LEDs do you notice a difference in color rendering or aesthetic appeal of your tank?
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-15-2015, 06:00 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Squrl888 View Post
Hey Jeff, I really enjoy your posts. Will you be using the Yuji LEDs to create an aquarium light? If so will you take some comparison pics of the lights?

Are there any other manufacturers that make high CRI LEDs?
Also, if you have used high CRI LEDs do you notice a difference in color rendering or aesthetic appeal of your tank?
Unfortunately no. One of the reasons I posted this is because I don't really want to buy $200 of SMD LEDs for 2 reasons. 1)just no cash for this at this time and 2) never soldered SMD diodes before.. which feeds into one and wasting $200....
Yugi had some "halogen type" based high CRI bulbs, but by the time I found them most were listed as "sold out" They diverged and don't have much in the line of tank friendly pre-built bulbs.
I'm contemplating a multichip or 2 but that design is not really what I want. I don't doubt they will grow plants well though. I don't doubt that colors won't be 'full" either..
Ideally I'd do 2 strips of SMD's w/ high K (5700) and low k diodes (2700)..Each one dimmer controlled separately..

Just adding the thought to the "possibility pile"..
They sell ribbons but at $197/5m and needing 2 reels (2700k unavailable at this time3200k is but not ideal) well.. I'll let deeper pockets consider that one..

doing it by "components" would be $95 for 100 of each of 2 colors.. Then I'd need to build the boards and buy dimmers design optics ect ect..
So the concept is great cost/benefit analysis at this time isn't

Basic design might be 120 diodes over a 3' tank (60 of each color 4 rows of 30 total) on a 6" slab of aluminum backed circuit board.. My head is swimming already..

As to other companies ..not that I am aware of..

I should state ONE big catch: Purple LED (which is the base diode for the really high CRI ones) don't seem to have the best run lifetime... and too much heat will shorten that a lot..
Now that is based on the large 1W or 3W emitter failures.. "purple" and UV diodes are not easy to manufacture...apparently.

BUt I believe people should be made aware of any tech beneficial to "us"..

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-15-2015, 11:35 PM
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Pretty neat. Too bad it's so expensive. I remember checking out the Yuji website and they had some 5W, 7W, and 9W COB emitters. I forget the price but it was something like $47 or relatively close to that. I thought those might work for a small tank.

For my 29 gallon my plan is to use the LEDs sold by RapidLED.com (Solderless because it's easier XP) and try to arrange a selection of different Kelvin-rated whites along with cyan, deep red, blue, green, and maybe violet in order to try to create a high CRI light. In order to mix the colors more I was thinking of using a diffusing film like the one this guy used: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/29628...through-water/

Don't have any plans for dimming capability, just don't wanna get too in over my head right now. Current plan is to have 3 drivers running at 350mA in order to conserve LED life and in order to get away with a cheap aluminum heatsink I made from aluminum channel from Home Depot.
-One driver will control the warm whites and will come on early for a sunrise effect and stay later for a sunset effect.
-The other driver will control cool whites, neutral whites.
-Other driver will control color LEDs and come on shortly after along with the cool&neutral whites in order to attain full power.

What do you think of this plan? Only problem I can think of so far is that I will have 3 drivers and thus 3 separate plugs. This is kinda annoying but I was just thinking of buying a 3-way separator plug and hide it in the body of the light and just use that power cord to power the whole light.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-16-2015, 03:03 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Squrl888 View Post
Pretty neat. Too bad it's so expensive. I remember checking out the Yuji website and they had some 5W, 7W, and 9W COB emitters. I forget the price but it was something like $47 or relatively close to that. I thought those might work for a small tank.

For my 29 gallon my plan is to use the LEDs sold by RapidLED.com (Solderless because it's easier XP) and try to arrange a selection of different Kelvin-rated whites along with cyan, deep red, blue, green, and maybe violet in order to try to create a high CRI light. In order to mix the colors more I was thinking of using a diffusing film like the one this guy used: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/29628...through-water/

Don't have any plans for dimming capability, just don't wanna get too in over my head right now. Current plan is to have 3 drivers running at 350mA in order to conserve LED life and in order to get away with a cheap aluminum heatsink I made from aluminum channel from Home Depot.
-One driver will control the warm whites and will come on early for a sunrise effect and stay later for a sunset effect.
-The other driver will control cool whites, neutral whites.
-Other driver will control color LEDs and come on shortly after along with the cool&neutral whites in order to attain full power.

What do you think of this plan? Only problem I can think of so far is that I will have 3 drivers and thus 3 separate plugs. This is kinda annoying but I was just thinking of buying a 3-way separator plug and hide it in the body of the light and just use that power cord to power the whole light.
consider Meanwell LDD-h or LDD-L drivers...
you need a separate power supply but that creates only one plug.
The LDD's are like $5-$8 each...
A switching power supply ranges from free (scavenged) to whatever, based on power demands ect..

Cyan and deep red are the major missing components in LED lighting..
Low kelvin temp LEDs are pretty high CRI. Only problem is the "tungsten look" that is a problem for many.
not to mention there is more than one standard used to measure CRI against.. So that high CRI on lights w/ a CCT of lower than 6500k is based on tungsten lighting..6500K and above is based on "daylight"..

A PWM dimmer would add about $50 for 4 channel control..
See Typhon at Steves LED

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-16-2015, 01:12 PM
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Cyan and deep red are the major missing components in LED lighting..
As I've said many times before, 660nm is still not 'missing' from quality high-CRI LEDs.

Philips 95CRI 2700K - blue
Bridgelux Vero Decor - yellow



The only thing that would make them missing is leaving out warmer diodes


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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-16-2015, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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As I've said many times before, 660nm is still not 'missing' from quality high-CRI LEDs.

Philips 95CRI 2700K - blue
Bridgelux Vero Decor - yellow



The only thing that would make them missing is leaving out warmer diodes
"660nm is missing or in short supply from almost all freshwater commercial lighting"..
There, corrected it..

and just to reiterate.. That Phillips, if measured to d65 CRI standards would not be 95...

Quote:
If the lamp to be tested has a
correlated color temperature (CCT) of less than 5000 Kelvin (K), the reference source is a
black body radiator (approximately like an incandescent lamp). For higher CCT sources,
the reference is a specifically defined spectrum of daylight. Therefore, light sources that
mimic incandescent light or daylight for the eight color samples are, by definition, the ones
that will score highest on the CRI.
http://cool.conservation-us.org/byor...ring_index.pdf

Maybe I should just include "high daylight CRI"

most high daylight CRI LED's are short 660nm red (and cyan, and some "purple")..

confusing mess...

Quote:
Standard incandescent lamps enjoy a CRI rating of 100.


Quote:
One "color" is still not perfect

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Last edited by jeffkrol; 04-16-2015 at 02:09 PM. Reason: edit
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-16-2015, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Depends how you flatten the bumpys in your head..


I personally lean to the 5600k..

this is a t12 but it is another good chart:
The problem with those spectral charts is that they are in lumens, and the lumen scale represents human eye sensitivity, not absolute energy as seen by plants. All radiation from black bodies is greatest in the infrared region, with the UV end becoming higher as the temperature goes up. So, those charts unduly minimize the near IR region of the spectra.

Hoppy
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-16-2015, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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The problem with those spectral charts is that they are in lumens, and the lumen scale represents human eye sensitivity, not absolute energy as seen by plants. All radiation from black bodies is greatest in the infrared region, with the UV end becoming higher as the temperature goes up. So, those charts unduly minimize the near IR region of the spectra.
Well yes and no, but the main point here "is" what it looks like to the human eyes..
Emulating "daylight" and colors in daylight as we see it.

Plant thing sort of falls in line...
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/10/aafeature
Go to chart there:
apparently advanced aquarist photos are verboten..







Quote:
The horizontal axis of the graph is wavelength, in nanometers, and the vertical axis is spectral irradiance, in W/m2·nm. The human eye is sensitive to radiation in the range between approximately 400 and 700nm, therefore we marked the wavelength ranges shorter than 400nm (ultraviolet light) or longer than 700nm (infrared radiation) in black, whereas visible wavelengths are colored as they are perceived by the eye.

The chart in Fig. 1 has been obtained from the solar spectrum at the boundary of the earth atmosphere using the SMARTS 2.9.5 scientific simulation software. This simulator takes into account light absorption by various components of the atmosphere as well as scattered light from the sky.


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Last edited by jeffkrol; 04-16-2015 at 10:06 PM. Reason: edit
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