Trying out Citric acid and Baking soda CO2 - Page 35 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #511 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 01:09 AM
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Last I used this system I was having leaks on the output hose of Bottle B. Thus I ordered another cap. Got tied up with life thus had it sitting on the self. Set it up again today. Poured bubble soap over the caps. Had the same results. I am trashing this unit.
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post #512 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 02:15 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hilde View Post
Last I used this system I was having leaks on the output hose of Bottle B. Thus I ordered another cap. Got tied up with life thus had it sitting on the self. Set it up again today. Poured bubble soap over the caps. Had the same results. I am trashing this unit.
Sorry to hear that. Sad you have had so many problems. Still happy with mine. Speaking of which. Will fire it back up this week now that summer travel is over. Slight delay because I broke my bubble counter. New one should be here Thursday.
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post #513 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 02:27 AM
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If I had used zip ties on the tubing connected to the bottle caps instead of the screw on caps it would have worked. I am tired though of spending money on this system. Next is to put a paintball Co2 system together.

jrill did you use zip ties?
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post #514 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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If I had used zip ties on the tubing connected to the bottle caps instead of the screw on caps it would have worked. I am tired though of spending money on this system. Next is to put a paintball Co2 system together.

jrill did you use zip ties?
I have only used them when I had a nipple connection going into a valve I attached. The system I have, the one with the plastic bar has compression fitting. One reason I went with this kind is there seems to be less areas that could fail than the bottle cap type

.
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post #515 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 02:27 PM
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Hi Jrill,

You think i can use this system also in 130G tank?
for how long you use same mix before you need to replace?

Thanks!
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post #516 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eranio View Post
Hi Jrill,

You think i can use this system also in 130G tank?
for how long you use same mix before you need to replace?

Thanks!
I don't think I would use it in anything bigger than a 20 gallon. I would go pressure tank co2 with anything bigger.
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post #517 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jrill View Post
I don't think I would use it in anything bigger than a 20 gallon. I would go pressure tank co2 with anything bigger.
Thanks for the quick answer!



if someone here tried this system with bigger tanks, i would be happy to get some feedback...
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post #518 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by eranio View Post
Thanks for the quick answer!



if someone here tried this system with bigger tanks, i would be happy to get some feedback...
I used it in my 37 gallon and it just about managed the CO2 levels provided you have a good diffusing mechanism in place. That is the max size tank I would do but you need a 2 bps constant rate. I have replaced mine 3 months ago with a paintball setup and its been really good. Just had to adjust the bps once last week after almost 3 months. I think I still have half the 24 Oz tank left to go.

Cheers,
Hari

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Originally Posted by Hilde View Post
Last I used this system I was having leaks on the output hose of Bottle B. Thus I ordered another cap. Got tied up with life thus had it sitting on the self. Set it up again today. Poured bubble soap over the caps. Had the same results. I am trashing this unit.
I think you got a bad piece. Its luck I guess. I got the cheapest model available and haven't had a single leak. Didnt even use zip ties except for my attachment to the solenoid valve which I dont use anymore anyway.


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post #519 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 07:51 AM
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Thanks!


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post #520 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Ready, set, go. Replacement bubble counter came in today so I restarted this formula. Again at 2 bps for 8 hours a day..

Bottle A = Citric Acid 400g to 600ml water
Bottle B = Baking Soda 300g to 200ml water
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post #521 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 10:00 PM
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I don't happen to have a scale at work, but I've brought measuring cups and spoons in. Is anyone able to give me a rough estimate of what 200g citric acid and 200g baking soda is in cups. Or even the most reliable recipe in cups.


EDIT: I went back through old threads and found this... http://www.chymist.com/Mass-volume%20equivalents.pdf

I did a rough calc and found that 1C + 2.5Tbsp is ~200g of Citric acid and 3/4C + 2Tbsp is ~200g Baking Soda.

Last edited by Chon_Lee; 08-24-2015 at 10:36 PM. Reason: Found my Answer
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post #522 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-25-2015, 05:57 AM
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Hi friends!
In my experience, the original chinese scheme working not very well. The pressure is growing constantly. I made some changes based on the Russian forums recommendations, and I added some my own improvement. Now, I have a very stable system, pressure is totally consystent (started from 1.5ATM, may floating around, depend of a temperature or so, between 1.3 - 1.7, it's pretty enough).

The proper proportions are:
acid: 150g+200ml of water
soda: 200g+minimal amount of water enough to cover a soda.

You can load more, just keep a proportion.

My last load (acid: 300g+400ml of water, soda 400g + minimal amount of water to cover soda) still working for my 75G tank with a dropchecker control 24/7 more of 3 weeks for now.

The scheme is attached.
It is very important to put the acid output at the bottom of the soda bottle, under the soda layer, instead to drop it from the top.
Also, using a needles is important for acid dosage. You will need at least one needle at the soda's side of the system; I prefer to use two with some reasons. You can try.

You will be unable to starting the system in common way; anyway it was too annoying for me. I using the car air pump to make a proper pressure in the system. Bicycle air pump should be OK, too It is much faster and easiest, at least for me



P.S. Also, I played with a ceramic diffusers, and they are just a garbage. I received a really small bubbles (like a gas dust) only with a twig; I using maple twig but you can try some other woods. Works just perfect and cost nothing.
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post #523 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-25-2015, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krakozavr View Post
Hi friends!
In my experience, the original chinese scheme working not very well. The pressure is growing constantly. I made some changes based on the Russian forums recommendations, and I added some my own improvement. Now, I have a very stable system, pressure is totally consystent (started from 1.5ATM, may floating around, depend of a temperature or so, between 1.3 - 1.7, it's pretty enough).

The proper proportions are:
acid: 150g+200ml of water
soda: 200g+minimal amount of water enough to cover a soda.

You can load more, just keep a proportion.

My last load (acid: 300g+400ml of water, soda 400g + minimal amount of water to cover soda) still working for my 75G tank with a dropchecker control 24/7 more of 3 weeks for now.

The scheme is attached.
It is very important to put the acid output at the bottom of the soda bottle, under the soda layer, instead to drop it from the top.
Also, using a needles is important for acid dosage. You will need at least one needle at the soda's side of the system; I prefer to use two with some reasons. You can try.

You will be unable to starting the system in common way; anyway it was too annoying for me. I using the car air pump to make a proper pressure in the system. Bicycle air pump should be OK, too It is much faster and easiest, at least for me



P.S. Also, I played with a ceramic diffusers, and they are just a garbage. I received a really small bubbles (like a gas dust) only with a twig; I using maple twig but you can try some other woods. Works just perfect and cost nothing.
I don't have the constant rising pressure problem you describe. The Chinese pro system seems to work ok for me as designed so I don't see what problem you have fixed.
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post #524 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-25-2015, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krakozavr View Post
Hi friends!
The pressure is growing constantly. I made some changes based on the Russian forums recommendations, and I added some my own improvement. Now, I have a very stable system, pressure is totally consistent.

Also, using a needles is important for acid dosage. You will need at least one needle at the soda's side of the system; I prefer to use two with some reasons. You can try.
When I had pressure rising I had a leak.
What changes did you make?
What do you mean by needles?

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Originally Posted by fish jihad View Post
If at some point point your needle valve fails or get hold a correct pressure i have an alternative. Its tedious but works. You simply alter the amount of water in your citric acid solution. My recipe is 2.5 cups of water ( close to your 600ml). So i added a 3 cups instead, and reaction slowed to a crawl. 2.75 cups was a little better.
I also tried 2 bottles at 2.5 cups on a one diffuser. That drained both bottles in 1.5 days and sent my Ph down to 6.4... so then i did 2.75 cups and that seemed ok.
Point is play with the amount of water in your acid and you get varying reaction rates
Chon_Lee here is someone whom used cups for measurements.
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post #525 of 872 (permalink) Old 08-25-2015, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ecotanker View Post
The formula for this reaction, according to a web search is
3NaHCO3 + C6H8O7 --> C6H5Na3O7 + 3CO2 + 3H2O
This suggest that 3 mole of baking soda ( NaHCO3 ) is needed to react with one mole of citric acid (C6H8O7) . Using an online mole to gram converter, give s that 3 mole of NaHCO3 is around 250 g and one mole of citric acid is around 192 g.

The amount of water added to each is probably not important, just add enough to dissolve the acid and enough to cover the baking soda with a thin layer of water.

I am currently trying this to see how it goes.
Well how long did it last?

Krakozavr when you were talking about needles did you mean mole as ecotanker talks about?
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