20 gallon sump design - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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20 gallon sump design

Hello everyone,

I plan on setting up a 40 gallon breeder display with a 20 gallon long sump and CO2 after the holidays. I have long been debating on using a sump instead of a canister, but after a few months of having a diy 10 gallon wet dry on my turtle tank the ease of maintenance is awesome. I will be doing a herbie overflow to keep it silent and help reduce off-gassing of CO2.

My goals for the sump
-fantastic bio-filtration
-a place to store all equipment
-refugium for fry/shrimp
-reduce CO2 offgas as much as possible

Here is the design

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Details about design:

-Herbie overflow will be hard plumbed using 1" pvc
-Baffle 1 is 9" tall
-Baffle 2 is 8" tall
-Baffle 3 and 4 are 8" tall with 1" gaps underneath
-Baffle 5 is 7" tall
-The fluidized media will be Bioflo (similar to K1 except it's made in the U.S)
-The return pump will most likely be a Rio 1700 (642 GPH)
-The refugium will be about 12" wide but everything else is subject to change

A few questions:

I don't recall ever seeing a fluidized media section in sump on a CO2 injected tank so I'm not sure on whether or not the flow from the sump will be sufficient enough to fluidize the media. If it isn't, I could add an air pump and some kind of top that would rest on top of baffle 3 and 4, but then I would probably have trouble with CO2 offgas. Would having the flow go over baffle 4 and under baffle 5 create more turbulence? Should I add another baffle after baffle 3 to force the water to fall on top of the media? Should I scrap the fluidized media idea?

Let me know what you think. Flaws, improvements etc.

Many thanks
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 04:07 AM
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With baffle 3 and 4 both open on the bottom instead of opposing water can flow right across instead of going through your media.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 01:47 AM
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looks pretty good but i thought fluidized beds need some kind of force behind the water and some testing. not sure how yours will work but heres a video that has this guys build/setup stuff you can see how it works. i recommend skimming threw this whole series and watch his building this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFDhU8qtfsU
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 07:08 PM
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Don't make the design more complicated than it needs to be. Here is my 20 gallon long sump at the bottom of my 40b. A 3 in piece of pvc is glued on the bottom to hold my filter sock and a piece of 2in 20ppi poret foam separates the refugium from my return pump. The photo is approx. 5 months old so the java moss has almost completely filled the refugium.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 02:18 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys. I really like my design but I made a slight change to the baffles as suggested. The reason it may come off as somewhat complicated is because I want to be able to reuse the sump if I ever decide to convert the tank into a reef.

Design #2

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agr414 View Post
Thanks for the input guys. I really like my design but I made a slight change to the baffles as suggested. The reason it may come off as somewhat complicated is because I want to be able to reuse the sump if I ever decide to convert the tank into a reef.

Design #2

Attachment 405634

im thinking have the fluidized bed be towards the front because you will have more power to move the stuff around. heres what i came up with drawn to mostly scale. may need some trial testing before its put to use tho.

30"L and 12"H glass is all 1/4"

the circle is a pvc pipe if you watched episode 31 from the link i posted earlier that should help keep the media down.

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-23-2014, 08:59 AM
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I don't want to be a negative Nancy, but I just want to share my thoughts on a sump for a planted tank...

I had my mind set on a sump when setting up my current planted tank. I had purchased a tank to act as a sump. Purchased acrylic for baffles. I'd bought a few bags of bio-balls and media. Picked up a decent quality pump. I went as far as to glue in the acrylic baffles. I'd even designed it in 3D using Solidworks.

After much reading on how to minimise degassing of CO2, I eventually figured it wouldn't really have that many, if any, benefits over a good sized canister filter. Sure, there are a few good positives about running a sump but I think the hassles of degassing outweigh the few positives you gain. It was also cheaper, overall, for me to buy an Eheim 2215 from a store (note: not the cheapest way of doing it) than it was to setup a sump.

Since going down the canister route, I haven't had one regret. A couple of months in and the biological filtration that is happening is extremely solid. Ammonia sits at less than .001ppm (monitored by Seneye) and barely budged (up to .003ppm) when I badly stirred up the aquasoil, nitrites are nowhere to be seen and nitrates are well under control.

By all means, do whatever you want your tank to be, but keep an open mind and think about everything (which I'm sure you're doing).


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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-23-2014, 01:49 PM
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You're always going to lose more Co2 with a sump vs a canister filter. You simply have to inject more to make up for it. Where are you injecting your Co2 because that also can affect how much Co2 you will use to reach your desired levels.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-23-2014, 03:31 PM
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The loss of Co2 from using a sump is marginal at best, even Tom Barr proved this to be a myth. Theoretically, you might have to run 3bps instead of 2bps to make up the difference (if there even is one) I wouldn't consider that a problem. Get the proper sized co2 tank and it is cheap to refill.

Do not let the myth of sump co2 loss prevent you from doing a sump if that is what you want.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-31-2014, 01:42 PM
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I really like your 2nd design. That's going to work really well. I think your co loss is going to be minable. As far as your pump choice I use a 2500 and 3100. I love them and have been running them for years You may be able to run you uv sterilizer off that pump to. What kind of head height do you have for the pump?
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-03-2015, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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20 gallon sump design

Here is my final design (already cut the glass)



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As for the way I am injecting co2, I will be doing it inline after the return pump with this reactor.



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It's all pvc except for the brass barb (couldn't find a nylon one). I thought the bottom tee was useful since it would allow for easier access for cleaning. I chose to put a 90 degree barb to slow down the flow inside the reactor and allow more time for the co2 to mix with the water. I plan on putting bioballs inside.

Last edited by Agr414; 01-03-2015 at 02:23 AM.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 01:35 AM
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no update pics?
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-13-2015, 03:49 PM
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I have always used sumps - they are fantastic. You will love yours.

I haven't seen much discussion here about the room required when your pump is shut off. The sump will fill with all water above any anti-siphon points. Have you accounted for this? Is your refugium at risk of spilling over into the pump area when this occurs (Are the baffles high enough to account for the increase in water)?
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20 gallon long, fluidized bed, sump, sump design

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