Ocean Clear & external pump - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-11-2008, 05:16 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
jaidexl's Avatar
 
PTrader: (42/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 33919
Posts: 3,500
Ocean Clear & external pump

I'm in new territory with a 110XH (48x18x30"h) that I want to filter with an OC 340 and external pump, I could use some help. I'm a pool guy and I'm trying to keep things simple and efficient, but this isn't a pool and I want to be sure I'm not overlooking or oversimplifying anything. My specialties don't really include plumbing, anyway.

The plumbing will consist of a simple hang-over closed loop, the pump then filter and back to tank, nothing else inline. No heater, no reactor/injectors (low tech), no UVS etc. I plan to use numerous ball valves (black/white circles in diagram) and threaded unions (grey rectangles) to isolate components for easy cleaning and disconnect. I want high flow in this tank, so much as to require adjustment down on a ball valve, I don't want to undercut it and wish I had more flow after the fact. This will be a planted tank, not a reef, so I don't want to shoot too high either. All the external pump info I'm reading is pretty confusing. Height from floor to the top of the tank will be approx 6'.

Questions:

1. How many GPH would you choose to pump this setup considering I want substantial current in the tank?
2. Ocean Clear suggests a pump on the higher end of their suggested range for an OC340 (500-1600gph), what are the downfalls of not doing this?
3. The OC340 has 3/4" connections as do most of the pumps I've looked at, should I maintain 3/4" plumbing throughout?
4. Will PVC flex (where pictured) cause any problems?
5. Do you see anything missing, redundant or wrong in this diagram? Thanks in advance - J

The black triangle is a check valve. Diagram is updated since post#9.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by jaidexl; 08-16-2009 at 05:44 PM.
jaidexl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-11-2008, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
jaidexl's Avatar
 
PTrader: (42/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 33919
Posts: 3,500
No help, eh?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jaidexl is offline  
post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-11-2008, 06:57 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
OverStocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (76/94%)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SoDak
Posts: 10,732
Running that many valves is foolish, asking for failure, and a waste of money.
OverStocked is offline  
 
post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-11-2008, 07:00 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (266/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,417
At most, I'd do this:



Use ball valve unions for each one.
epicfish is offline  
post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-11-2008, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
jaidexl's Avatar
 
PTrader: (42/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 33919
Posts: 3,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by over_stocked View Post
Running that many valves is foolish, asking for failure, and a waste of money.
You think, even the schedule40 3/4" ones?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jaidexl is offline  
post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-11-2008, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
jaidexl's Avatar
 
PTrader: (42/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 33919
Posts: 3,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfish View Post
At most, I'd do this:

[IMG]

Use ball valve unions for each one.
That works, when I remove the suction line for cleaning I can just remove the priming cap at the top to keep the tank from siphoning when I open the bottom valve up. And the outgoing side has the check valve so that one obviously won't siphon, maybe some spill over when I remove the hose though.

I was hoping to keep from making too much of a mess by using the valves to seal in water, but if you guys think it's too risky then maybe I should simplify. Money isn't an issue, I have access to parts, except for ball valve unions.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jaidexl is offline  
post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-11-2008, 07:14 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (266/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaidexl View Post
That works, when I remove the suction line for cleaning I can just remove the priming cap at the top to keep the tank from siphoning when I open the bottom valve up. And the outgoing side has the check valve so that one obviously won't siphon, maybe some spill over when I remove the hose though.

I was hoping to keep from making too much of a mess by using the valves to seal in water, but if you guys think it's too risky then maybe I should simplify. Money isn't an issue, I have access to parts, except for ball valve unions.
Uhm. With the ball valve unions, you close the ball valve and unscrew the pump end of the union. After the canister filter on the return line, you do the same thing; close the ball valve and remove the filter end of the line. Water will stay in the tubing. Once it's all hooked up again, simply open the ball valves and you'll keep your siphon on the drain line.

Look at the bottom of this picture:



^ that's how it'll basically work.
epicfish is offline  
post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-11-2008, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
jaidexl's Avatar
 
PTrader: (42/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 33919
Posts: 3,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfish View Post
Uhm. With the ball valve unions, you close the ball valve and unscrew the pump end of the union. After the canister filter on the return line, you do the same thing; close the ball valve and remove the filter end of the line. Water will stay in the tubing. Once it's all hooked up again, simply open the ball valves and you'll keep your siphon on the drain line.
Ok, I'm trying hard to understand here but maybe I'm missing something. Say that last picture is me removing a line, the open end in the pic can be either the line into the pump or the pump itself, water isn't going to spill from that open line to the right of the valve? Words are hard right now


Anyway, below are the valves I have. We have a pool maintenance business, some of our service we sub to friends, but we do service a lot of leaks etc on the equipment, and in all the years of doing that, we can't think of any time these have failed aside from the knob seizing up after years of being outdoors. I'm not saying my plan above isn't redundant or in need of simplification, we just can't imagine these valves being the part that fails. The standard threaded unions are a different story, they get small leaks but I've never seen one blow apart or anything. Those ball valve unions look scary.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jaidexl is offline  
post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-11-2008, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
jaidexl's Avatar
 
PTrader: (42/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 33919
Posts: 3,500
OK, I spoke with my brother the plumber and he assured me that the sched40 ball valves do fail and leak more often than I realized.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jaidexl is offline  
post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-11-2008, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
jaidexl's Avatar
 
PTrader: (42/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 33919
Posts: 3,500
Ok, I updated the diagram in post#1, alittle better? I think it's essentially what you posted, Epic.

I canceled four ball valves and three unions. I had my head wrapped around being able to detach the flex from the hard risers, but I guess if I'm going to take them off to clean, I need to clean the whole thing. I don't even clean filter hose that often anyway.

The ball valve union thing is an option in some places, for now we'll just say they can be either/or in the diagram. Money is probably going to affect that decision, too.

Thanks to the both of you for the help, by the way, clearly it's improved things greatly from what I began with.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jaidexl is offline  
post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-11-2008, 09:40 PM
Planted Member
 
NATURE AQUARIUM's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pensacola, Florida
Posts: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaidexl View Post
OK, I spoke with my brother the plumber and he assured me that the sched40 ball valves do fail and leak more often than I realized.
Here is a tip for you when you glue your PVC pipe to your elbows/valves, make sure the joint is clean before you do anything DO NOT USE THE PRIMER, the primer melts the PVC and will cause it to leak, USE JUST THE GLUE ON PVC!!!

I found that out while working for a plumbing company!!!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
NATURE AQUARIUM is offline  
post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-12-2008, 04:23 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
jaidexl's Avatar
 
PTrader: (42/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 33919
Posts: 3,500
Hmm, sounds interesting. I'm willing to 86 some valves and whatnot, but I think PVC primer might be one thing I'll have to stick with my gut on, especially with a ~1000gph pressure pump on the line. I will agree though, going ape baggers on primer can wear a fitting down and make it loose fitting, we have to do that on purpose sometimes when we update fittings in a very old pool with old plumbing, the return faces usually shoot back off when you do that unless you hold them in for 5 minutes.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by jaidexl; 11-05-2009 at 03:18 PM.
jaidexl is offline  
post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-12-2008, 04:32 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
jaidexl's Avatar
 
PTrader: (42/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 33919
Posts: 3,500
Ok, now that the plumbing is simplified, there are still some questions hanging, any takers?

1. How many GPH would you choose to pump this setup considering I want substantial current in the tank?
2. Ocean Clear suggests a pump on the higher end of their suggested range for an OC340 (500-1600gph), what are the downfalls of not doing this?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jaidexl is offline  
post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-16-2009, 04:01 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
jaidexl's Avatar
 
PTrader: (42/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 33919
Posts: 3,500
Ten months later and I'm finally able to set this tank up. Here's what I did with the plumbing.

The stand I have is very cramped and the cabinet is separated into two sides, so it was fun making things fit.

The pump and filter are both mounted to a wooden base, and the base is floating on a 1" foam kneeling pad for gardening, to dampen vibrations. The entire unit is removable for maintenance, and valves were used to keep water contained in the process. Everything is in working order but I need a new OC o-ring.

I may have to upgrade the Blueline HD40, it's just enough flow for a 110gl, and that's without plants or filter media in place, we'll see. I'm probably going to tee off a second outlet to the opposite side of the tank to improve circulation.









To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jaidexl is offline  
post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-16-2009, 04:29 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
jaidexl's Avatar
 
PTrader: (42/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 33919
Posts: 3,500
Oh, and I was going to cancel out the valve between the filter and pump, seems like it's not really necessary when the entire unit pulls out. But someone convinced me I'll be glad if I leave it there. Not convinced yet, if the pump needs switched out, it just means I don't have to pry tubing off a barb. I could use it with a patch tube, to run the pump alone when the filter is being cleaned, but I'm probably never going to unbolt the filter to do that when the whole unit is removable.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jaidexl is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome