Water gathering suction bucket thing - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-07-2014, 02:20 AM Thread Starter
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Water gathering suction bucket thing

So... I was having trouble keeping puddles forming in my dry start tank after giving the higher parts of the substrate a good soaking spray. I tried using some airline tubing as a siphon, but more often than not, I would end up with aquasoil saturated water in my mouth. Tube with such a small diameter is also pretty average at keeping a siphon when you get the odd aquasoil pellet stuck in the tube.

It got me thinking. All I need is a sealed vessel, in which I am able to create a negative pressure, and have a hose going into it which will suck up the water.

I went to the hardware store and bought a smallish 5 litre bucket with lid, some 4mm nylon tubing, a couple of barbs (to insert into the lid and join the tubing to) and a rigid 4mm~ poly pipe tube.

I tried to get a bit fancy and I modified an airstone pump I had laying around. I wanted to use it to create the suction. It didn't end up working. Either my silicone job on the inlet was dodgy, or it just doesn't have the suction it needs to overcome the expanding air within the bucket as well as pulling the water up the tube. Nevermind that problem, I can always just suck on the tube which was my original plan.

Here is the finished product. I didn't think of taking photos of the build process, but it really doesn't need it with how basic it is.

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Last edited by Dan110024; 09-07-2014 at 02:30 AM. Reason: .
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-07-2014, 04:01 AM
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Concept ought to work with larger tubing, too. Great way to start siphoning with a gravel vac. Yea! No more 'fishy water'.
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-07-2014, 04:09 AM
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-07-2014, 05:51 AM Thread Starter
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I like the carton one, there. Who said water changes have to be difficult


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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-07-2014, 06:30 AM
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I like the carton one, there. Who said water changes have to be difficult
I haven't tasted tank water in over a year.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-07-2014, 11:38 AM
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Ok so noob question. Why can't you use 3 barb outlets on the bucket, 2 no return valves and a air pump?? Use 1 return valve on the air pump to build pressure inside the bucket...
have the siphon hose 1 end inside the aquarium the other end inside the bucket needs to be in about 1 inch water...
Have the last hose going to where ever with the last return valve on it to hold pressure...
This way you can use the air pump to start the siphon and also if you have hose number 2 low down on the bucket you can send the water where ever you want within certain limitations....
The only issue I can see is the bucket filling up or the lid coming loose which will break the air pressure...

Please let me know what you guys think??

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-07-2014, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan110024 View Post
So... I was having trouble keeping puddles forming in my dry start tank after giving the higher parts of the substrate a good soaking spray. I tried using some airline tubing as a siphon, but more often than not, I would end up with aquasoil saturated water in my mouth. Tube with such a small diameter is also pretty average at keeping a siphon when you get the odd aquasoil pellet stuck in the tube.

It got me thinking. All I need is a sealed vessel, in which I am able to create a negative pressure, and have a hose going into it which will suck up the water.

I went to the hardware store and bought a smallish 5 litre bucket with lid, some 4mm nylon tubing, a couple of barbs (to insert into the lid and join the tubing to) and a rigid 4mm~ poly pipe tube.

I tried to get a bit fancy and I modified an airstone pump I had laying around. I wanted to use it to create the suction. It didn't end up working. Either my silicone job on the inlet was dodgy, or it just doesn't have the suction it needs to overcome the expanding air within the bucket as well as pulling the water up the tube. Nevermind that problem, I can always just suck on the tube which was my original plan.

Here is the finished product. I didn't think of taking photos of the build process, but it really doesn't need it with how basic it is.

Attachment 367210

Attachment 367194

Attachment 367202
This is awesome.

Question about the 4mm polly pipe tubing....

I can't tell looking at the pic but does that have a tapered end like I think I see?...or did you have to really work to get the airline tubing on there?

And what section of the store are these in?

I am going to go get this today, this is awesome. Home Depot?


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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-07-2014, 06:15 PM
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PS My tank is still under 6 months and I always do my WC with airline tubing to suck up the excess debris.

I have detritus worms all in my tank free swimming and I hate having my hands in the water of that specific tank. That wand looks like my answer to getting into very specific spots without my hand in the water.


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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-08-2014, 01:59 AM
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Thank you for this idea. At this point I haven't built the bucket part but I did go to Home Depot and made this part.

Seeing that the OP is in Australia, idk if that had anything to do with it but I couldn't find anything as small as the black tubing in the OP.

Home Depot has 1/4 inch smallest.

Standard airline tubing fits inside and just needs a tiny bit of silicone for back up although it fit pretty snug.

This is so simple but a lifesaver for me as far as getting detailed suction w/o dipping my hands in.

Thx!


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Last edited by jeffturneraz; 09-08-2014 at 06:18 AM.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-09-2014, 12:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimpcrazy00 View Post
Ok so noob question. Why can't you use 3 barb outlets on the bucket, 2 no return valves and a air pump?? Use 1 return valve on the air pump to build pressure inside the bucket...
have the siphon hose 1 end inside the aquarium the other end inside the bucket needs to be in about 1 inch water...
Have the last hose going to where ever with the last return valve on it to hold pressure...
This way you can use the air pump to start the siphon and also if you have hose number 2 low down on the bucket you can send the water where ever you want within certain limitations....
The only issue I can see is the bucket filling up or the lid coming loose which will break the air pressure...

Please let me know what you guys think??
I'm going to have to revisit this post when I'm back home in a few days. I'm not sure that I follow your concept.

If you're using the outlet of an air pump to pump air into the bucket, then you will be creating a positive pressure which won't start or hold a siphon. I may be reading your post wrong though.. I'm wondering if your check valves and third hose might play a role in starting a siphon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffturneraz View Post
This is awesome.

Question about the 4mm polly pipe tubing....

I can't tell looking at the pic but does that have a tapered end like I think I see?...or did you have to really work to get the airline tubing on there?

And what section of the store are these in?

I am going to go get this today, this is awesome. Home Depot?
They come with a 3mm or 4mm threaded barb on the end of the tube which 4mm tubing fits over perfectly. You might want to finish it off with silicone to get a better seal. I put silicone on mine but I still get a small stream of bubbles entering the line as the water is sucked up, I must have done a lousy silicone job. No big deal though, it still works.

These are the rigid risers I used.. http://www.popeproducts.com.au/produ...s-with-adaptor

This really is perfect for fine detained siphoning of particular spots. If you use the type of bucket I have, which is just a white bucket that comes with a lid, the lid will contract as a vacuum is made. This means water will continue to be sucked up while the vacuum is still present (it takes a little bit for the pressure to equalise with atmospheric pressure). I think a check valve in line of the suction tube would be good so you don't have to constantly suck or block the suction tube hole.


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Last edited by Dan110024; 09-09-2014 at 12:57 AM. Reason: .
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-09-2014, 01:03 AM
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hehe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan110024 View Post
I'm going to have to revisit this post when I'm back home in a few days. I'm not sure that I follow your concept.

If you're using the outlet of an air pump to pump air into the bucket, then you will be creating a positive pressure which won't start or hold a siphon. I may be reading your post wrong though.. I'm wondering if your check valves and third hose might play a role in starting a siphon.



They come with a 3mm or 4mm threaded barb on the end of the tube which 4mm tubing fits over perfectly. You might want to finish it off with silicone to get a better seal. I put silicone on mine but I still get a small stream of bubbles entering the line as the water is sucked up, I must have done a lousy silicone job. No big deal though, it still works.

These are the rigid risers I used.. http://www.popeproducts.com.au/produ...s-with-adaptor

This really is perfect for fine detained siphoning of particular spots. If you use the type of bucket I have, which is just a white bucket that comes with a lid, the lid will contract as a vacuum is made. This means water will continue to be sucked up while the vacuum is still present (it takes a little bit for the pressure to equalise with atmospheric pressure). I think a check valve in line of the suction tube would be good so you don't have to constantly suck or block the suction tube hole.
The 3rd line and check valve is what makes it work really. I'm not 100% sure it actually will work lol I have used a reverse procedure to pump water from the bucket into a aquarium up hill...

Bump: Technically if I was to make something like this I would use a 20 gallon bucket or barrel. Have a battery powered air pump attached to the lid 2 check valves lol 1 line into the air and 2nd line for siphon as the air pressure is sucked out of the bucket/barrel it will Naturally suck in water to replace the lost volume.

Bump: The air pump would be inside the barrel/bucket...
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-09-2014, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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The problem you have there is that the air pump will be creating a positive pressure in the bucket. Air will escape out of the bucket, through the line venting to the atmosphere and there will be pressure on the line going into the tank, which will be stopped by the check valve.

There is no way the water is going to be able to come through the line while the positive pressure is present in the bucket. The only way a siphon can start is with a negative pressure to suck the water up.


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Last edited by Dan110024; 09-09-2014 at 07:27 AM. Reason: .
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-09-2014, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan110024 View Post
The problem you have there is that the air pump will be creating a positive pressure in the bucket. Air will escape out of the bucket, through the line venting to the atmosphere and there will be pressure on the line going into the tank, which will be stopped by the check valve.

There is no way the water is going to be able to come through the line while the positive pressure is present in the bucket. The only way a siphon can start is with a negative pressure to suck the water up.
That's exactly what I thought when I saw the design but decided not to comment because I am no expert and thought he had some deeper scientific understanding. Like the positives in play would create a negative maybe?

I think the fact that there is a tube in the design on the OP specifically for creating the suction with your mouth where that tube never touches water is reason alone to not over complicate with pumps.

You literally put your mouth on a clean tube and create suction for seconds and boom, you have a siphon. I don't think motorizing is necessary in such an efficient, simple functioning siphon.


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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-09-2014, 01:35 PM
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lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffturneraz View Post
That's exactly what I thought when I saw the design but decided not to comment because I am no expert and thought he had some deeper scientific understanding. Like the positives in play would create a negative maybe?

I think the fact that there is a tube in the design on the OP specifically for creating the suction with your mouth where that tube never touches water is reason alone to not over complicate with pumps.

You literally put your mouth on a clean tube and create suction for seconds and boom, you have a siphon. I don't think motorizing is necessary in such an efficient, simple functioning siphon.
I'm trying to create a more powerful suction just imagine being able to just wave the wand across the bottom of the tank and walla no snail poop... that for me would be priceless in the long run I have another idea

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan110024 View Post
The problem you have there is that the air pump will be creating a positive pressure in the bucket. Air will escape out of the bucket, through the line venting to the atmosphere and there will be pressure on the line going into the tank, which will be stopped by the check valve.

There is no way the water is going to be able to come through the line while the positive pressure is present in the bucket. The only way a siphon can start is with a negative pressure to suck the water up.
Yeah now that you say that it makes sense lol

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-09-2014, 01:47 PM
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ok

So my back up idea lol. Have the air pump Inside the bucket attached to the lid. As the air pump pumps air out it will pull water in because of the negative pressure building up inside the bucket...
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Last edited by shrimpcrazy00; 09-09-2014 at 01:48 PM. Reason: typo
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