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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-28-2014, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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LED colours/spacing questions

hi everyone, i have an aquaone 980t which i have been slowly modifying from the useless spec of the standard tank. currently i have a 24" wavepoint 4xt5 fixture and co2/ferts but i have always wanted to try LED's the tank is 40"wx20"Dx28"H near as damn it. i have worked out i would need around 40 led's and will be buying the cree xt-e cool/neutral whites and then xp-e reds and blues.

i was wondering what width/length heatsink i would need and how would i space the leds to distribute the colour etc? would two or three rows of each colour work?
what would be best?

lots of questions i do apologise
thanks
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-28-2014, 10:12 PM
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hi everyone, i have an aquaone 980t which i have been slowly modifying from the useless spec of the standard tank. currently i have a 24" wavepoint 4xt5 fixture and co2/ferts but i have always wanted to try LED's the tank is 40"wx20"Dx28"H near as damn it. i have worked out i would need around 40 led's and will be buying the cree xt-e cool/neutral whites and then xp-e reds and blues.

i was wondering what width/length heatsink i would need and how would i space the leds to distribute the colour etc? would two or three rows of each colour work?
what would be best?

lots of questions i do apologize
thanks
I'll start.. since I read this but honestly have no idea on what it is based on.. but using it from my past experience it does seem to give a good "starting point"
Quote:
all I need to do is multiply length times width divided by 22
So 36................to............. x2 (72 ) would cover every 9 sq in w/ an LED.. (approx)
Being 26" deep I'd look to optics.. at least 90 degrees.. Most chips are inherently 110 degrees or so.....

I'd go w/ a 3-4 channel controller.. though 2 is fine. Recommend a "bluish" and a "reddish" channel..
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2014, 12:42 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for replying! And wow 72 LEDs? Wouldn't this be overkill since I'm using 3w cree LEDs? In the UK that means it would be 210+ just on leds that seems alot???
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2014, 04:16 AM
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Thanks for replying! And wow 72 LEDs? Wouldn't this be overkill since I'm using 3w cree LEDs? In the UK that means it would be 210+ just on leds that seems alot???
Yes it is a lot.. and really that would be MAX and was just included for a "reference" number..
36 would be plenty..
A common "rule of thumb" would be 1/2 W per 1W t5.. but also keep in mind you won't/shouldn't run 3W to 3W..
4 channels of 9 make for an easy design.....
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2014, 04:50 AM Thread Starter
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Ok thanks a lot this is all a learning curve for myself, so if I used two channels for the whites and a channel each for the red and blue does that sound about right?
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2014, 12:49 PM
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Ok thanks a lot this is all a learning curve for myself, so if I used two channels for the whites and a channel each for the red and blue does that sound about right?
It depends on what you want the "colors" for.. Color? PAR? ect..

I don't ever see a need for a "just blue" channel..

Here is one w/ a 2:1 ratio of cool white to actinic:
I don't care for a blue blue tank for any reason .. and therefore, though I want the color temp shifting property I don't want to waste the watts..
BUT that is a personal choice.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2014, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Ok thanks for that, I'm only wanting to use royal blues for the correct par/lumens (can't remember what you call it) for the plants need to photosynthesis. I've heard red isn't good for algae so if not I'd be quite happy with just cool white leds Aslong as it's beneficial for the plants.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2014, 10:55 PM
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Ok thanks for that, I'm only wanting to use royal blues for the correct par/lumens (can't remember what you call it) for the plants need to photosynthesis. I've heard red isn't good for algae so if not I'd be quite happy with just cool white leds As long as it's beneficial for the plants.
you have some things to learn/unlearn..
though admittedly some of it is "arguable"...

I know I would not personally build an LED fixture w/out 660nm reds.......
It is an obsession.. based on "best of my knowledge"... or AFAICT factor.

Currently my only questions are 1)Add UV to "shock" the plants into more color and shore up the deep blue response spectrum. and 2)reds other than 660...

Took me some time to add cyan. now I wouldn't build w/out it..

Next time..
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-30-2014, 02:47 AM Thread Starter
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LED colours/spacing questions

So what's the general rule for colours as I haven't been able to find any info regarding the ratio between white leds and blues/reds etc. I don't want to over do it and get a horrible colour in the tank I want it as close to 6500k as possible so it looks pretty natural.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-30-2014, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by moorin View Post
So what's the general rule for colours as I haven't been able to find any info regarding the ratio between white leds and blues/reds etc. I don't want to over do it and get a horrible colour in the tank I want it as close to 6500k as possible so it looks pretty natural.
Look at it this way.. say you ran 10 10000k whites on one channel
10 3000k whites on another
For the sake of simplicity assume they are looked at as equal in your eyes..

So when all are at "full" your CCT is 13000/2 =6500k

IF you shut the 3000k channel off you get a 10000k tank (at 1/2 luminosity of course)

now add colors for 2 reasons 1)add specific PAR regions and 2)broaden or flatten the spectrum

As you saw all "white" are not really white but a blue LED plus yellow phosphor giving an uneven spread..
WW and cool whites together help "flatten" the curves and in general are really all that is (in my mind and many opinions) necessary.. See how the warm white "fills in" a lot of the lower red area and has less blue.. Averaging those 2 curves will give you a flatter spectrum.. w/ one teeny exception, the 475ish region.. (this is where cyan LEDs come in but it is not perfect either. The "kicker" though is it punches up greens and you eye really likes green so it appears very "vivid", A WORD of caution.. some "cyan" leds are just a blue and yellow LED combined and DO NOT peak or fill the same way, though they "look" similar)
Throwing red (deep red 660nm) and royal blue (470nm) just add PAR "punch" so to speak..
Either running a seperate channel (recommended) or only modest use of them is recommended.
Interesting collection of "chatter" re this.
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/31074...d-build/page-3

One not of caution: You must decide what "white" you like.. ignoring the 6500k aspect for now, and as I found out.. the warmer leds are more "visually warm" than the coll ones are "visually blue" if that makes any sense.

In other words if you like a crisp white look yet want a warmer fill (sunset dimming, just a bit of red pop) you wouldn't do 50/50 ww/cw but somewhere a bit lower.. say 2/1 ratio cw/ww. Again though, dimming is your friend.
BUT you also want to max. your output.
Gets tricky.. and to be honest,
I haven't even completely decided myself..I've had "just" 3500k and "just 6500K and now 50/50 3500k/6500k as "main lighting" and haven't decided which is a favorite.. The fill colors add "pop" to every fish color and plants are marvelously green but the overall tone, though FAR from bad.. well I'm just not sure.
Of course I broke my own recommendation by running a combined ww/cw channel instead of a seperate channel, thinking I was smarter than myself.....
Of course replacement LED's would be no problem..
More later
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-30-2014, 02:13 PM
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example:
4 660red, 7 3500k, 7 6500k @100%
The "blue" channel and cyan ramp up later..cutting the "yellow"..this is morning tone..
Oh and your brain actually compensates for it a bit.. In reality (well the brain reality) it looks a smidge "whiter".. funny how that works.
bottom is red granite and white quartz
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-30-2014, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Think just to make things easier I am going to run 2:1 cw:ww as I am wanting sunrise/sunset dimming. I have been reading some of hoppys posts and I'm not too sure whether I want blues and reds now although they flatten out the spectrum the problem I've seen/read is you can end up with spots of blue and red.

The next issue is trying to work out par levels at the substrate which will be upto 36" distance from lights to substrate (tank is 28" tall minus 2" substrate plus hanging of the light) and I think 36 xml's will be overkill on a 50gal looking at other builds.

I am wanting to drive them at 2100ma so will be roughly 1000lm each but when I have a minute I'll use hoppys formula to work out the par as I have a funny feeling it's going to be well over the figure I want for a "high light" build.

Thanks again for your help/discussion
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-30-2014, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by moorin View Post
Think just to make things easier I am going to run 2:1 cw:ww as I am wanting sunrise/sunset dimming. I have been reading some of hoppys posts and I'm not too sure whether I want blues and reds now although they flatten out the spectrum the problem I've seen/read is you can end up with spots of blue and red.

The next issue is trying to work out par levels at the substrate which will be upto 36" distance from lights to substrate (tank is 28" tall minus 2" substrate plus hanging of the light) and I think 36 xml's will be overkill on a 50gal looking at other builds.

I am wanting to drive them at 2100ma so will be roughly 1000lm each but when I have a minute I'll use hoppys formula to work out the par as I have a funny feeling it's going to be well over the figure I want for a "high light" build.

Thanks again for your help/discussion
4 (3- cw, 1-ww) channels
7 LED's each .
90 degree optics
4-1000mA meanwells
Typhon
heatsink
and a 36V 200W PS and you are set

Make sure whatever PS you get accounts for 1)Max V(f) and the 3V "loss" (no matter how many in parallel) to the drivers..
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-30-2014, 03:13 PM
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Your missing out on the fun......fw light btw:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2245019

"Noon" lighting..........

Last edited by jeffkrol; 04-30-2014 at 06:28 PM. Reason: image
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-30-2014, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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that looks brilliant fair play and well done!

had a play on sketchup and using a heatsink off ebay i can make something like this.



two outer rows will be cool white xml's and the inner row will be warm white xml's
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