Plumbing for the First Time - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-13-2008, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 195
Plumbing for the First Time

I'm a little confused on plumbing a sump. I've looked everywhere and haven't really found step by step details. Would this sketch work (might need to zoom in)? BTW, the vinyl hose from the pump goes to a hose barb.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sump.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	21.4 KB
ID:	5982  


For all you aquarium needs,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
has everything.
_____________________________________________

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Umm....Yeah

"Um, I'm gonna need you go ahead and come in tomorrow. So if you could be here around nine, that would be great. (starts to walk away) Oh, oh, yea…I forgot. I'm gonna also need you to come in Sunday too."
ummyeah is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 04:04 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
BlueRam's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by ummyeah View Post
I'm a little confused on plumbing a sump. I've looked everywhere and haven't really found step by step details. Would this sketch work (might need to zoom in)? BTW, the vinyl hose from the pump goes to a hose barb.
You are showing a drilled tank with a closed loop system. If you had a canister all is well but in an open system (sump) the tank will drain down. Check out these images featuring an overflow box, drain, sump, pump, return, and siphon break.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...h+Images&gbv=2

Moved to Tucson.
BlueRam is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 03:35 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
AndrewH's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 492
Nice link BlueRam!

I think I'm a little confused... I'm assuming you're going to have your filtration within the sump, in turn making it a wet/dry filter?

If this is the case there's more you need to do before plumbing.

Here's some pictures that might help in addtion to BlueRam's link.

If the sump isn't going to be the filtration, then it looks like you have the basic concepts down (within your sketch), and can refine them with the link BlueRam provided.

Thanks,
AndrewH


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
AndrewH is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 195
Actually it's for a reef tank . It will not be a wet/dry filter. Apparently you must have a sump for a reef tank but people still use them on planted tanks too.

Quote:
but in an open system (sump) the tank will drain down
Didn't I show that in the drawing?

I forgot to mention I'll put a plastic hose clamp in the water and a stainless steel one at the top. So it all looks good? When you permanently glue a pvc pipe to the bulkhead and you want to change the pipe do you just replace the bulkhead with it too?

For all you aquarium needs,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
has everything.
_____________________________________________

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Umm....Yeah

"Um, I'm gonna need you go ahead and come in tomorrow. So if you could be here around nine, that would be great. (starts to walk away) Oh, oh, yea…I forgot. I'm gonna also need you to come in Sunday too."
ummyeah is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 07:20 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (266/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by ummyeah View Post
Actually it's for a reef tank . It will not be a wet/dry filter. Apparently you must have a sump for a reef tank but people still use them on planted tanks too.

Didn't I show that in the drawing?

I forgot to mention I'll put a plastic hose clamp in the water and a stainless steel one at the top. So it all looks good? When you permanently glue a pvc pipe to the bulkhead and you want to change the pipe do you just replace the bulkhead with it too?
lol, you don't HAVE to have a sump on a reef tank. The added water volume just makes the system a little more stable and easier to maintain.

And uh, you have quite a bit more reading to do on plumbing...it took me a few weeks before I understood all the intricacies of plumbing.

Look at the picture you posted. What if the return pump shuts down. All the water in your tank will drain into your sump, overflow the sump, and cost you thousands in water damage. You'll need to either put the hole closer up to the top, or have either an internal or external overflow box, with a durso (or modified durso) standpipe etc...etc...

Here's a good site for the basics: http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html
epicfish is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 07:43 PM
Planted Member
 
Adkins.its's Avatar
 
PTrader: (7/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 223
Send a message via AIM to Adkins.its
1. yes
2. yes, you would want to if your using slip bulk heads.

That setup would work just fine with a closed loop used with a canister filter. If your going to use an open sump setup your going to either need a stand pipe or if your tank wasn't drilled, an overflow box. Thats what keeps the water where you want in the display tank. You really could do the way you have it but you would have to have a hellish pump that could keep up with the gravity feed of that pipe. But it would be really scary to have setup.

Basically If the power EVER went out you would have a waiting pool in the room the tanks in.

11.4g - Rimless Tree Scape
Adkins.its is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 07:44 PM
Planted Member
 
Adkins.its's Avatar
 
PTrader: (7/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 223
Send a message via AIM to Adkins.its
lol ya what epicfish beat me to

11.4g - Rimless Tree Scape
Adkins.its is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 195
Dude, I've read tons about sumps. I WILL have a Perfecto 90 gallon with a corner flow that comes with a durso standpipe. The sump WILL be 40 gallons which will be more than enough to hold the extra water if the pump fails. In fact, I don't think there's an article on sumps I haven't read. I have http://www.melevsreef.com/ bookmarked too. I know you don't have to have a sump to have a reef tank, I was kidding about the people at reefcentral.com. I'm not worried about the tanks or the pump now, I just want to see if my plumbing is correct.

For all you aquarium needs,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
has everything.
_____________________________________________

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Umm....Yeah

"Um, I'm gonna need you go ahead and come in tomorrow. So if you could be here around nine, that would be great. (starts to walk away) Oh, oh, yea…I forgot. I'm gonna also need you to come in Sunday too."
ummyeah is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 08:35 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,315
Well your plumbing is basically just a representation. In reality it will be much more complex (well, at least most are). Besides all the in-tank plumbing thats omitted, you have just a simplistic line representing the drain and return line. The specifics will be various fittings and sizes, etc. What about check valves, unions, and ball / gate valves? What size and type of bulkheads will be used (thread/slip). Any inline components that you need to consider? If your trying to reduce bubbles/splashing in the sump a tee can help by running the drain into the middle, with the water exiting out the bottom and air bubbles rising up to the top which is capped and only a small vent hole. Thats what I did, but I suppose that depends on how much flow your talking about, I've got ~1500gph going through the sump and without a lot of tweaking it sounded and looked like a Jacuzzi.
crazy loaches is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 08:37 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
kornphlake's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 319
The plumbing looks fine, at least in the picture. The idea is that water siphons into the sump and a pump pushes it back to the tank. You want some way of stopping water from moving from the tank to the sump should the pump fail. A standpipe is one way to do it as it blocks the water falling to the drain once the water level drops below the height of the standpipe, another would be drilling the outlet just slightly below the water line so that if the pump fails water in the tank will only drop until just below the outlet. Or you can have elaborate HOB overflow boxes with siphon breaks, they all do the same thing. You just have to balance the size of the sump with the amount of water that is above the standpipe or above the outlet when the pump is running. It sounds like you've got that all figured out.

Personally I'd use a union just after the bulkhead so that I could change the plumbing without having to buy new bulkheads. You might want to pick up a few extra elbows and a couple 45 deg fittings, just in case you have to make the plumbing jog around some other piece of equipment. PVC is cheap and easy to find, whatever you don't use is easily returned for a refund.
kornphlake is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 195
I will be using slip bulkheads, there will not be any inline components and bubbles/splashing doesn't matter to me since it will all go through a skimmer. Basically I just want a sump full of water with a protein skimmer in it. I will not need a ball/gate valve to control the flow since I want as much of it as possible. I don't think I need a check valve since my sump can hold the extra water. What would I need a union for? Could you take pictures of your plumbing and if possible your bulkheads on the bottom of the tank? Thanks for everything.

For all you aquarium needs,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
has everything.
_____________________________________________

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Umm....Yeah

"Um, I'm gonna need you go ahead and come in tomorrow. So if you could be here around nine, that would be great. (starts to walk away) Oh, oh, yea…I forgot. I'm gonna also need you to come in Sunday too."
ummyeah is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 09:15 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
kornphlake's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 319
A union just lets you disconnect the plumbing without sawing through the pipe. This is a union:
http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop...er/164_103.htm

It could save you the cost of having to buy new bulkheads down the road if you make changes to the plumbing.

You might want a ball valve to throttle the return, I'm not seeing any obvious reason as to why you'd want it but there may be some reason to reduce the flow. It will be easier to add it now than to decide you want one later.

A check valve keeps water from siphoning through the return line should the power fail. If your stand pipe is pulling water from the top of the tank it makes sense to have the return at the bottom of the tank. In the event of a power failure the water above the top of the standpipe will fall to the sump and be contained easily, there is a significant amount of water above the return line though, without a check valve all the water in the tank will drain through the return line and end up overflowing the sump.
kornphlake is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 09:27 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,315
Unions make it easy to disconnect things. Mainly for hard-plumbed apps though. If your doing all vinyl with hosebarbs then you can just loosen the clamp and seperate the hose from the barb. The valve is also handy to stop flow for maintanence. But if your design is setup so it will handle the right amount of backflow, and then stop, then this isnt needed either. There could be times that you'd like to do maintanence without any uneccesary water in the sump though.

I used checkvalves because my return line goes all the way to the bottom of the tank and could siphon upon power failure. As I also previously indicated, I also use a siphon break vent. I dont rely on just one of these since either is susceptable to failure.

Also valves help to reduce noise in the drain if that becomes an issue. Mine sounded like niagara falls until I valved it down a ways.
crazy loaches is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 195
If I glue a union in the bulkhead, in order to connect and disconnect the pipe must be threaded right? Are threaded pipes with teflon tape wrapped on as reliable as glued?

For all you aquarium needs,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
has everything.
_____________________________________________

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Umm....Yeah

"Um, I'm gonna need you go ahead and come in tomorrow. So if you could be here around nine, that would be great. (starts to walk away) Oh, oh, yea…I forgot. I'm gonna also need you to come in Sunday too."
ummyeah is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2008, 10:41 PM
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: California
Posts: 233
I am not understanding, how are you going to stop it from flooding? Standpipe on the intake and return? Standpipe just not in the picture or is the sump sealed?
Spiritwind is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome