Hagen Ladder Question - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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Hagen Ladder Question

I am currently using a DIY bell made from the bottom of a quart water bottle to get the CO2 into my water in my 29 gallon tank. It's working well -- my PH lowered from 8.0 to 7.0 after adding the bell and CO2 and my KH is 11.

BUT my loaches have a tendency to bump into the bell and move it ever so slightly, either tipping it so the bubble of gas is halfway depleted or moving it so that the airline tubing no longer bubbles into the bell reliably.

I was thinking about replacing the bell with a Hagen ladder but wondered if I should use one ladder with two 2L bottles ganged together with a T-connector, or if I should use 2 ladders, each connected to a 2L bottle. Does it make a difference?

I use a HOB filter at the moment, so an inline reactor isn't an option and the tank is in a room where quiet is important, so I'd rather not use anything that would add to the noise of the tank.

Thanks for any advice/suggestions.

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 11:43 AM
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well, sounds like the reason you aren't satisfied with the bell diffuser is because it's unstable. Instead of investing $XX.XX on a hagen ladder (or 2) why not take some cheaper and simpler measures to stabilize the bell?

For instance, with the purchase of some aquarium silocone you could easily cut a hole in the top/side of the bell and seal the tubing right in there. As for the loaches releasing co2 . . . . how is the bell secured at the moment? You could attach a suction cup to it or something to stabilize it.

As for 2 versus 1 bubble ladder, I always used 2x2liters into 1 bubble ladder. I don't see the advantage of having 2 ladders except for
1. spacing. Put one at each end of the tank to get more even co2 levels.
2. redundancy. If one fails or gets blocked, you still have 1/2 your co2 production.

-Ernie


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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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I do have it attached to the tank with one suction cup. I suppose adding a second couldn't hurt. And I could also try attaching the airline tubing inside the bell or to the edge of the bell -- maybe punch a hole in the side and run the tubing straight into the bell? That might do the trick.

When I do my water change tonight or tomorrow, I'll futz with the bell a bit. Once a few crypts get a bit taller, it'll be well-hidden in the tank so it isn't an unattractive system and you're right -- I'll bet I can figure out a more stable way to keep bell and tubing in line without spending any money.

Thanks for the tips on the ladder, though. I couldn't figure out any advantage to two other than the ones you mentioned -- since the bubble rate is what matters, two bottles going into one ladder ought to put as much CO2 in the water as 2 bottles each going into its own individual ladder, unless I'm missing something.

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 05:36 PM
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If you use two bottles on a ladder doesn't some of the gas escape before it can dissolve fully? I'm having that problem with just one bottle per ladder. I say if you can fix the bell, and it's working for you, why spend the money? You could use what you would have spent on some more plants or shrimpies.

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 05:41 PM
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sorry to invade but i was thinking aboout hooking up 2 bottles also, and was wondering how excactly to do it? is it just 2 bottles to a T valve and then to the ladder? or is there more to it? thanks and sorry again for the hijack.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 06:11 PM
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I'm doing this so I'll try to explain it to the best of my abilities. I have 3 Gatorade bottles and a ladder. 2 of the bottle have a single line going into a smaller bottle. What I did is drill 3 holes on the smaller one. 2 are inputs and one is a output. The output goes to the ladder and that's it. No T connectors or anything. No silicon no nothing. Just a tight fit on each tube.

I don't know if some gas is being wasted or not. But I'm seeing an incredible growth rate with the Glosso. I have Glosso growing out my @**. The only thing I did experience was the residue from the CO2 on the ladder. But all I did was fill the small bottle with water and that's it. No more white.

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeplove
I'm doing this so I'll try to explain it to the best of my abilities. I have 3 Gatorade bottles and a ladder. 2 of the bottle have a single line going into a smaller bottle. What I did is drill 3 holes on the smaller one. 2 are inputs and one is a output. The output goes to the ladder and that's it. No T connectors or anything. No silicon no nothing. Just a tight fit on each tube.

I don't know if some gas is being wasted or not. But I'm seeing an incredible growth rate with the Glosso. I have Glosso growing out my @**. The only thing I did experience was the residue from the CO2 on the ladder. But all I did was fill the small bottle with water and that's it. No more white.
There could be some loss there when you disconnect 1 bottle. If you use check valves between the source bottles, and the small bottle, it will keep you from loosing CO2 when you change out a bottle.

Walter

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 08:48 PM
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Why not just bubble the second CO2 source into the intake of the filter? Or do you think it'll make too much noise?
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-10-2006, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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I wound up attaching an airline clip to the suction cup that affixes the bell to the tank wall and then clipped the airline from the DIY CO2 bottles to that. As a result, no problems with the loaching tipping out the CO2! So thanks for the suggestions -- it's working great!

I'm considering, though, getting the Red Sea Turbo system just to get the Venturi pump-driven diffuser/reactor thing from it and using that instead. The quiet in the room is most important after lights-out, and so I was thinking about running the pump on a timer opposite the lights -- it'll be quiet at night and diffuse less CO2 without the pump on, hopefully it won't be too noisy during the day. Most importantly, it'll be smaller than the bell. (As I said before, the bell isn't totally unattractive, especially once the plants in front of it grow in a bit more, but since my 29 gallon is only 12" front to back, that 3-4" across bell takes up some planting real estate that I'd rather leave open.)

I figure I could use the small yeast/sugar/water bottle that comes with the Red Sea system to power some DIY CO2 in my nano tank, just bubbled in with an air line and a limewood airstone or a Hagen ladder to keep things simple, then nothing would go to waste.

What do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? But whatever I decide, at least I now have a more stable DIY system in place for the time being!

29 g planted community tank, 2.48 WPG, DIY CO2, Greg Watson ferts --
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-- 5 gallon planted Marineland 5 gallon hex with 15w 6500k CF, Excel, 100% flourite substrate -- RCS & male dwarf puffer --
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