Doubling DIY CO2 recipe - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 02:10 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
green_valley's Avatar
 
PTrader: (11/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Posts: 1,098
Doubling DIY CO2 recipe

I have seen most of the DIY CO2 recipe is:

2 cups sugar
1/4-1/2 teaspoon yeast.
Fill a 2L pop bottle about 3/4 full

I was wondering if it's doubled up becomes:

4 cups sugar
1/2 - 1 teaspoon yeast.
Fill a 4L pop bottle about 3/4 full

Is this going to take longer (extend the pressure life)? or is it going to blow up the bottle?

*************
**** Green ****
*************


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
green_valley is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 03:09 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
jstehman's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LaVista, NE
Posts: 500
If you double the recipe with a 2L, it will start out VERY strong, and then peter off about a week later as the yeast shuts down. Now if you were to use a 1 gallon Carlo Rossi wine jug...then yeah go for it. The Chianti jug lasted almost 4 weeks for me. The hardest part is getting the tubing to seal in the metal cap.

That original recipe works for me pretty well. In my 20 gal, I'm running that recipe diffused through a Hagen mini Elite, and the DC is green/light yellow for 2 weeks minimum.

You won't blow up the bottle. Ever drop a 2L soda bottle? Did it explode? You'll gas your fish before the bottle explodes.

I would just follow the recipe, or get yourself the 1 gallon glass jug and double it.

Never show anyone your true potential. If you do, they will always expect it.
jstehman is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 04:06 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
green_valley's Avatar
 
PTrader: (11/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Posts: 1,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstehman View Post
If you double the recipe with a 2L, it will start out VERY strong, and then peter off about a week later as the yeast shuts down. Now if you were to use a 1 gallon Carlo Rossi wine jug...then yeah go for it. The Chianti jug lasted almost 4 weeks for me. The hardest part is getting the tubing to seal in the metal cap.

That original recipe works for me pretty well. In my 20 gal, I'm running that recipe diffused through a Hagen mini Elite, and the DC is green/light yellow for 2 weeks minimum.

You won't blow up the bottle. Ever drop a 2L soda bottle? Did it explode? You'll gas your fish before the bottle explodes.

I would just follow the recipe, or get yourself the 1 gallon glass jug and double it.
Thank you for your response. That's what I meant, if you look at my "double" recipe, the bottle become 4L instead of 2. Thank you again for your suggestion.

*************
**** Green ****
*************


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
green_valley is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 04:13 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
jstehman's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LaVista, NE
Posts: 500
Glad to share my experiences.

Never show anyone your true potential. If you do, they will always expect it.
jstehman is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 05:09 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 301
Many years ago, I atempted to mix up a batch in an eight liter detergent bottle. I scaled up the sugar but left the yeast the same as i would use for a standard 2L bottle. It lasted about the same with a higher volume of co2 produced. I can't remember exactly if it lasted slighty longer or shorter but it certainly wasn't worth doing again.
RoyalFizbin is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
green_valley's Avatar
 
PTrader: (11/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Posts: 1,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalFizbin View Post
Many years ago, I atempted to mix up a batch in an eight liter detergent bottle. I scaled up the sugar but left the yeast the same as i would use for a standard 2L bottle. It lasted about the same with a higher volume of co2 produced. I can't remember exactly if it lasted slighty longer or shorter but it certainly wasn't worth doing again.
That's why I thought by doubling the yeast also might help.

*************
**** Green ****
*************


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
green_valley is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 06:20 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
nalu86's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kennesaw, Ga
Posts: 1,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_valley View Post
That's why I thought by doubling the yeast also might help.
It won't help, the production stops from the moment there is to much alcohol produced and the yeast starts dying.

So no matter how much yeast you throw in, it won't last longer (yeast reproduces super fast)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

125g Breeding group Tilapia
2x 75g+ 40B Tilapia outgrow tanks
20H Philippine blue Angelfish breeders + fry
20L CPD and Shrimp tank
10g Apisto Gibbiceps

Bengal: Meisje
Savannah Cat: Kimchee
nalu86 is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
green_valley's Avatar
 
PTrader: (11/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Posts: 1,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by nalu86 View Post
It won't help, the production stops from the moment there is to much alcohol produced and the yeast starts dying.

So no matter how much yeast you throw in, it won't last longer (yeast reproduces super fast)
hmmmmmmmmmm......so you're saying, regardless how much and how big the recipe is, it will only last for 2 weeks?????

*************
**** Green ****
*************


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
green_valley is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 09:15 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
jkan0228's Avatar
 
PTrader: (115/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 5,485
If you double everything, then you'll just get more co2 but in the same period of time. This is what I think: if you want it to last longer, maybe double the volume of water and more sugar? But you don't wanna double your yeast.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jkan0228 is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 09:20 PM
Are these real?
 
Wasserpest's Avatar
 
PTrader: (195/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 15,634
Yep, if you double the recipe/volume, you will get twice the CO2 output, but no extended lifespan.

I have tested the gravity of some DIY setups over time, and was actually surprised to find how little sugar had been turned into alcohol after it pretty much stopped bubbling. Perhaps the missing yeast nutrients are the culprit.

Test this - instead of using the old "2 cups of sugar" try a single cup and see if it makes any difference either way. Some folks use the messy "Jello" method which extends the activity somewhat. Not sure if the mess is worth it, mixing up some sugar and water is very simple.

I had bubbles going for over a month in a colder environment... temperature affects the reaction (fermentation) a lot, with cooler temps = less output = longer duration.

Just some things to ponder...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Wasserpest is offline  
post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 07:45 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8
Here's my contribution to this fascinating thread: use way less yeast but the same two cups of dissolved sugar. Like 1/4 to 1/2 a teaspoon of yeast. Mine lasts for two months solid. 1 Gallon plastic Crystal Geyser jug, simple $7 diffuser, 15 gallon tank, room temp. Two months and going strong, I just changed it for fun. Literally. Enjoy.
Patty LongD is offline  
post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 11:22 PM
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 184
Years ago at the AGA Convention in Dallas, Tarah Nyberg presented a talk about how to generate CO2 with optimized conditions. She was a graduate student at UT Southwestern Medical School in Dallas getting her PhD in yeast genetics, so I figured she knew what she was talking about. Anyway, here are some of the points that she emphasized in her talk and that were put into practice in my tanks.

1) Yeast do not tolerate ethanol and sugar above 10% total volume. So, if you use 2 cups of sugar (500ml) per 2 liters of water, your sugar concentration is 25%. That's 15% of the sugar wasted, since yeast quit fermenting after the ethanol reaches 10%. So, I used to use 1 cup of sugar/2 liters of water which will be below the ethanol tolerance of the yeast.

2) Yeast need additional nutrients to stay healthy. When the yeast is rehydrated, they have a store of proteins that is used in fermentation of sugar to CO2. Over time, that store is used up and the yeast will need nutrients to supplement their "diet" in order to synthesize the proteins needed to continue fermentation. Tarah recommended adding 1-2 teaspoon of a protein mix (just make sure it has proteins and vitamins and minerals), or if you can find some yeast extract, that's even better.

3) (Optional) Yeast also like ammonia, so add some ammonium sulfate (1 teaspoon) or 1 tablespoon molasses as an ammonium source. I skipped this step and my fermentation was fine.

4) Buffer the yeast with a bit of baking soda. The pH of the solution will drop during fermentation, so adding a buffer will keep the pH in the healthy range for the yeast. I used to buffer between 7-8.

5) Use champagne or wine yeast, both of which are more tolerant of higher ethanol concentrations. I had great luck with a strain that was not only more ethanol tolerant, but also temperature tolerant. Yeast like to be warm, but the champagne yeast I used even worked well at low temps (especially important in the winter).

6) Finally, decant to liquid part and retain the yeast sludge at the bottom of the bottle. The healthy, growing, fermenting yeast are in that layer. The stuff that's floating (flocculant yeast) is dead and should be poured out when you make a new mix.

I used a 3 liter wine bottle for my container and make 2.5 liters of the mix each time. I was able to generate a slow steady release of CO2 for 3-5 weeks depending on how long I had the yeast. I reused the same yeast for over 2 years before I finally converted full time to a Co2 system. Hope that helps some.

Texex

Forgot to add, I only used 1/8 a teaspoon to start up the yeast. It might take a bit of time to get going, but the density of the yeast will increase gradually and utilize the sugar in a more controlled fashion. If you use too much yeast, it starts up too fast and you end up getting a CO2 spike followed by a fairly rapid decrease in CO2 generation. By using less yeast, the yeast will multiply to equilibrium where the yeast multiplying equals the yeast dying. If you use too much, the yeast will burn through the sugar to the ethanol limit and then they will start dying off until levels can be maintained in equilibrium. Hope that made sense....

Last edited by Darkblade48; 11-22-2013 at 03:12 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
Texex is offline  
post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-23-2013, 08:20 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (16/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texex View Post
2) Yeast need additional nutrients to stay healthy. When the yeast is rehydrated, they have a store of proteins that is used in fermentation of sugar to CO2. Over time, that store is used up and the yeast will need nutrients to supplement their "diet" in order to synthesize the proteins needed to continue fermentation. Tarah recommended adding 1-2 teaspoon of a protein mix (just make sure it has proteins and vitamins and minerals), or if you can find some yeast extract, that's even better.
I feel like this is probably a stupid question but by protein mix do you mean like the whey protein exercise stuff?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jkpedrita is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome