Help me set up an auto prime for my siphon (sump) ***edit 11/5/11 PVC overflow*** - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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Help me set up an auto prime for my siphon (sump) ***edit 11/5/11 PVC overflow***

EDIT: New info on page 2

I have a 125g with a 29g sump in the stand. The siphon hangs over the top with a fitting in the top for manual siphon. What I am trying to do is figure out a way to prime the siphon back up in the even of a power failure. Any idea's?




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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 06:53 PM
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EDIT:

mis read the question.. you just want to prime... :\

in the event of a powerfailure, do you lose prime? what happens? when equalibrium is held, u shouldnt have any water movement from the sump... how is the air bubble getting reintroduced into your inlet?
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 07:36 PM
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In the second photo is that the end of the siphon tube? Normally a siphon tube would have the opening facing up, not down.

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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Naekuh View Post
EDIT:

mis read the question.. you just want to prime... :\

in the event of a powerfailure, do you lose prime? what happens? when equalibrium is held, u shouldnt have any water movement from the sump... how is the air bubble getting reintroduced into your inlet?
I don't lose prime in a power failure, once the water reaches the bottom of the siphon it stops the flow. once power comes back on my pump will begin returning the water to the main tank but my siphon won't prime itself. I have to uncap the hose and suck for a second to restart.

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In the second photo is that the end of the siphon tube? Normally a siphon tube would have the opening facing up, not down.
Yes it is. I didn't fully understand how to run all the piping when I set this up and had a buddy come over and help me and this is how it was built. I was intending to build a "u" shape but that's not what he did.

I'm really trying to keep from having to rebuild the siphon, but I'm starting to think thats the only way I am going to get rid of this problem.

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 09:25 PM
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Connect a aqua lifter pump to evacuate the upper elbow on your siphon, and let it run all the time. Send its output where ever is most convenient, back to the tank, into the sump, back into the drain line farther along -- wherever you like.

As long as your return doesn't flood the tank before the aqua lifter pump can evacuate the air and restart the siphon, you should be fine.

Have a look here (~55 seconds in, and again with more detail at ~3:35) to see an example of how that should work.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Connect a aqua lifter pump to evacuate the upper elbow on your siphon, and let it run all the time. Send its output where ever is most convenient, back to the tank, into the sump, back into the drain line farther along -- wherever you like.

As long as your return doesn't flood the tank before the aqua lifter pump can evacuate the air and restart the siphon, you should be fine.

Have a look here (~55 seconds in, and again with more detail at ~3:35) to see an example of how that should work.
I have actually been looking for that aqua lift pump for the last hour on google. Thank you. I was almost ready to say the hell with it and just build/buy a HOB overflow. The main reason for not wanting one is I would have to move the tank a little further away from the wall.
(filled 125g+stand+29g sump=hernia)

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 10:06 PM
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What would happen if you run the airline you suck through down to your return pump inlet with a venturi?

How do you set the water level with your setup? Is there a box on the back of the tank that the intake runs into?


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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 10:13 PM
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What would happen if you run the airline you suck through down to your return pump inlet with a venturi?
Oooo. Clever.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 03:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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What would happen if you run the airline you suck through down to your return pump inlet with a venturi?
What is a venturi?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jcgd View Post

How do you set the water level with your setup? Is there a box on the back of the tank that the intake runs into?
I have a gate valve.

My sump



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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 04:24 PM
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Your siphon needs to be re configured as an overflow. That way it will never lose a siphon, and you wont overflow your tank in the even of an outtage. I would get on that very quickly before something happens! google diy pvc overflow and youll find lots of info

Matt


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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Your siphon needs to be re configured as an overflow. That way it will never lose a siphon, and you wont overflow your tank in the even of an outtage. I would get on that very quickly before something happens! google diy pvc overflow and youll find lots of info

Matt
There's no fear of an overflow in the even of a power outage. I've already tested that by unplugging the pump and seeing how high it goes in the main tank, and I've created siphon with no pump. Both tanks will fill but stop short of overflowing either.

I'm really leaning towards the lift pump mentioned earlier as all I need is a little suction to get things going again. I'm curious as to what the venturi is.

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 05:33 PM
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Ok= but you will burn out your pump. There is no need to buy a lift pump though. Everyone who uses a sump runs some sort of an overflow, be it a manufactured overflow box, or a pvc one. They are very easy to make, and will keep a siphon in the even on a power outage. I think people here think that you are having issues with air becoming trapped in said DIY overflow and are suggesting these ways to keep that from happening. It would not be wise to use these suggestions as the only method of keeping a siphon. You would also be able to raise your tank level if done correctly.

watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DFk4bnIxEg


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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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I can't watch videos at work, I'll check it out tonight.
How will the pump burn out. The siphon works fine right now, now air trapped. My only concern is in the even of a power outage it won't start itself back up. And the water level has since been taken care of. That pic was taken as I was setting up and regulating the inlet and return.
Not trying to be ignorant, just not completely understanding. I'm open to suggestions. I might even go ahead with an overflow. I'd just like to learn as much as I can.


Do you have any links to good write ups on DIY overflow? The only ones I have found seem to be centered around drilled tanks.
This is also good experience for me as I will be redoing my 55g into a paliduriam soon and will probably build a sump for that as well.

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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 05:48 PM
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What would happen if you run the airline you suck through down to your return pump inlet with a venturi?

How do you set the water level with your setup? Is there a box on the back of the tank that the intake runs into?
This is an epic solution!

never thought about this..

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What is a venturi?
in short, on some powerheads, you notice how u can attach an airline hose to the top of the outlet and have it blow bubbles out?
connect that to your vacumn syphon instead...


Then power head turns on, the air inside the syphon will be pulled because of the venturi and you will get your autoprime...

once all the air is pulled, it will just pull water from there.
You can put in a small ball valve to close it once the air is pulled and u see no more air being pushed out by powerhead.

In short.. power head forces water in -> direction.
Current of water causes vacumn inside that tube which draws air.
If that tube is tied to your syphon, it will draw the air inside syphon.
Once syphon is air free, the power head has no more air to draw from that line and will draw water from syphon.
Close off syphon port, or you will get dirty water being pulled from overflow and spat out though powerhead.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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This is an epic solution!

never thought about this..



in short, on some powerheads, you notice how u can attach an airline hose to the top of the outlet and have it blow bubbles out?
connect that to your vacumn syphon instead...


Then power head turns on, the air inside the syphon will be pulled because of the venturi and you will get your autoprime...

once all the air is pulled, it will just pull water from there.
You can put in a small ball valve to close it once the air is pulled and u see no more air being pushed out by powerhead.
My son has one of those in his tank....for now. Thank you.

Semper Fi
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