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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-25-2011, 04:45 AM Thread Starter
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Discuss multiple projects with me

I need to finish a few products for my build. And there are a few things I really need help with. I'm frankly just tired of thinking about it and I would like to know what others think or would do. I'll list my current issues, but I'll probably have to add some as I go.

1) My tank was used for a reef so it need a thorough cleaning, but I think the previous owner used a razor blade for coraline removal. The silicone in the corners is nasty with stain and algae and heavily lifted. The edges are all jagged and torn down to the sand level. The rest of the silicone is young (less than two year old tank) and looks fantastic. It simply seems the edges of the corners are toast from cleaning.

2) The overflow is a peninsula style. It is centered in the center of one end of the tank. It is also very large, probably 10" x 7" or so, so I loose a lot of space. I want to redo this.

3) Combining the two issues above, I want to cut a slot for a weir at one end of the tank and then add an external overflow. I think it will look great and clean, plus I get about 5 gallons back. If I redo the silicone, the internal OF can be cut out without issues because I will reseal the inside to fix my silicone problem.

4) How do I cut the slot for the weir? I would be doing it myself but I don't know what do use. I basically want to do it right and keep the risk down. This tank is beautiful and I don't want to rebuild it.

5) I will have holes left from the current OF. I can plug them and use a MP20 for flow, or add a closed loop. I don't have the powerhead, but I have the pump for the loop. Both have their positives and negatives, but I'm thinking the vortex is a better way to go, but the CL could be really cool too.

Let me know what you think. Feel free to throw me comments on any issue. I just want to discuss some of this stuff and figured I'd do it all in a single thread.

Thanks.


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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 02:25 AM
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We can start with the fact that you can't just cut a section out of a glass tank.

If you start removing silicone, to reseal, remove it all and do the job right the first time. Silicone will not bond to old silicone. Scrape it all off and seal it all. Use silicone labeled for aquarium use. Yes, there are some cheaper alternatives that may work, but is it really worth the possibility that you'll have to tear it down, re-scrape and reseal with the correct product?

Depending on where your left over holes will be you may be able to silicone glass over them and save the cost of bulk head plugs.
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 03:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
We can start with the fact that you can't just cut a section out of a glass tank.
Oh boy. Check out this thread here. And this one here. Maybe you didn't know what I meant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
If you start removing silicone, to reseal, remove it all and do the job right the first time. Silicone will not bond to old silicone. Scrape it all off and seal it all. Use silicone labeled for aquarium use. Yes, there are some cheaper alternatives that may work, but is it really worth the possibility that you'll have to tear it down, re-scrape and reseal with the correct product?

Depending on where your left over holes will be you may be able to silicone glass over them and save the cost of bulk head plugs.
I will be using RTV108 to reseal. It's pure and waaaay stronger than GE or similar products. I will be scraping off all the silicone in every corner, but leaving the seams holding the tank together intact. Is that what you mean?

I'm going to plug the holes with bulkheads (already have them) if I don't do a close loop. I'm tore between the loop and the Vortex powerhead though.

Keep in mind I've researched these things to death, I'm just indecisive and need some guidance/ opinions.


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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 03:57 AM
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The best idea I've seen for cutting glass was the use of a Dremel tile cutter bit. The poster bought a few of them, set the glass horizontally, drew a circle for their bulkhead cut, built a short water barrier around the cutting area out of putty and added a bit of water for cooling, drilled a hole straight in then followed around their circle. This avoided the chipping that always happens on the back side when using a hole saw. Sounds like it might be ideal for your plan. Honestly if you want it done right you might want a glass pro to do it, but then if they break it....


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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 04:00 AM Thread Starter
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Haha, I'm also not fond of moving this beast again. Outside is one thing, but I had to borrow a truck and everything to bring it home in the first place.


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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 04:05 AM
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If the original overflow bulkheads were in the floor, I would use loc-line on them for the in/out of a closed loop, then hide them behind plants and hardscape. Tom Barr did this for the main filtration on some of his tanks, I like it because it gets rid of ugly filter pipes, something I plan on using if I ever get a rimless. The inlet would actually have a grate over it then the outlet would have a short loc-line so you can point it in any direction.


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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 04:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaidexl View Post
If the original overflow bulkheads were in the floor, I would use loc-line on them for the in/out of a closed loop, then hide them behind plants and hardscape. Tom Barr did this for the main filtration on some of his tanks, I like it because it gets rid of ugly filter pipes, something I plan on using if I ever get a rimless. The inlet would actually have a grate over it then the outlet would have a short loc-line so you can point it in any direction.
Exactly what I was thinking. But I'm wondering if the vortech would be better than a closed loop.


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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
We can start with the fact that you can't just cut a section out of a glass tank.

If you start removing silicone, to reseal, remove it all and do the job right the first time. Silicone will not bond to old silicone. Scrape it all off and seal it all. Use silicone labeled for aquarium use. Yes, there are some cheaper alternatives that may work, but is it really worth the possibility that you'll have to tear it down, re-scrape and reseal with the correct product?

Depending on where your left over holes will be you may be able to silicone glass over them and save the cost of bulk head plugs.
easily available "aquarium silicone" is crap get an industrial silicone that is water safe, I believe scolley found a silicone that would work, the common aquarium silicone is like ge window and door silicone 2.
but the above comment is correct if you plan on adding any silicone remove ALL of it and re do it, but do it with a damn good silicone or you may end up regretting going the cheaper route


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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 07:24 AM
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also I would try doing a beananimal overflow if at all posible, witnessed one, the guy who had it tried to cause a flood but he was unable to even cause one without clogging the pipes which is easy to avoid also, not to mention i couldnt even here moving water...


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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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When you guys say "remove all the silicone" do you literally mean ALL of it? Cause then I only have 5 pieces of glass and I will have to rebuild the tank.

What I am planning is cutting out the corner bead and leaving the seams that actually hold the tank together. I will remove every scrap and film of old silicone up to the joint and clean it with denatured alcohol. Then I will redo the corners with RVT108. It is industrial strength silicon. Much better than GEll or other commercial grades.

Just a cool little factoid, while GEll and the like don't stick well to dry silicone, rvt108 will stick better to itself than glass. I thought that is kinda neat. You have to work really fast with it though, cause it skins over quickly and it Hella strong.


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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 01:57 PM
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I believe they mean the beads in the corners only. The thin layer between the glass is what's doing all the work, I wouldn't touch that. I have been removing the corner beads forever and do not replace them with new silicone, people I know think I'm stupid, they just can't understand how silicone works no matter how many times I explain tensile and shear force to them.


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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-28-2011, 02:41 AM
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Oh boy. Check out this thread here. And this one here. Maybe you didn't know what I meant?
You're right, I didn't know what you meant. Or that there were people insane (in a the meaning of the term) enough to cut slots in a glass tank.

Quote:
I will be using RTV108 to reseal. It's pure and waaaay stronger than GE or similar products. I will be scraping off all the silicone in every corner, but leaving the seams holding the tank together intact. Is that what you mean?
Yes, leave the glass stuck together, but replace all the silicone inside the tank. Doing just the sides is asking for leak later.

As for the post later about cutting out the inside silicone and not replacing it, the poster is braver about water than I am.
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-28-2011, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaidexl View Post
I believe they mean the beads in the corners only. The thin layer between the glass is what's doing all the work, I wouldn't touch that. I have been removing the corner beads forever and do not replace them with new silicone, people I know think I'm stupid, they just can't understand how silicone works no matter how many times I explain tensile and shear force to them.
Personally I wouldn't leave it out unless I knew what was used originally, but that's just me. If cheaper silicone is used I'm sure it adds a bit of strength to the seam as a whole, although I understand it the shear force that is critical. If a good product is used in the first place they don't need the corner bead.

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Originally Posted by shrimpNewbie View Post
also I would try doing a beananimal overflow if at all posible, witnessed one, the guy who had it tried to cause a flood but he was unable to even cause one without clogging the pipes which is easy to avoid also, not to mention i couldnt even here moving water...
I will be going beananimal for sure. My system will be slightly different but the basic idea is the same. I will be keeping the water level quite high in the box to minimize turbulence. I will be running a co2 system and want to keep the gassing off down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
You're right, I didn't know what you meant. Or that there were people insane (in a the meaning of the term) enough to cut slots in a glass tank.
You know... I agree with you completely. It's totally nuts, but I think I might be crazy enough to try it. I think if I set it up properly I could pull it off.

This doesn't really support my cause, but today I took a POS dremel tool (a cheap copy brand) and a crap diamond coated cutting tool from one of those cheap multi kits and tried cutting a chunk out of a tank. It was ancient and all beat up so I'm tearing it apart anyway. It had 1/4 glass and I got about 1cm in from the edge before I snapped a piece off. I made a few more cuts before packing it up. Even for a garbage tool and bit it cut easily. I think the reason I chipped the tank was because I was free-handing it and testing out how much pressure and rpm worked best. I was really hammering on it. If I get a rotorzip and a template I think it would work okay. I might also explore using a rotor with a special bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Yes, leave the glass stuck together, but replace all the silicone inside the tank. Doing just the sides is asking for leak later.

As for the post later about cutting out the inside silicone and not replacing it, the poster is braver about water than I am.
What do you mean by "doing just the sides is asking for leak later"? I'm not following that bit. I'm only going to do the inside corners.

In all seriousness, what do you think about cutting the slot/ weir into the tank.


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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-28-2011, 05:54 PM
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What do you mean by "doing just the sides is asking for leak later"? I'm not following that bit. I'm only going to do the inside corners.
Some people try to remove and reseal only the vertical corners of the silicone leaving the horizontal bottom beads. Since new silicone won't bond to old silicone, there is a possibility of water seeping into the joint where old meets new and leaking. So, scrape and reseal all eight places where glass meets glass.
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-28-2011, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Some people try to remove and reseal only the vertical corners of the silicone leaving the horizontal bottom beads. Since new silicone won't bond to old silicone, there is a possibility of water seeping into the joint where old meets new and leaking. So, scrape and reseal all eight places where glass meets glass.
Oh, yeah. Makes sense now. Thanks for clarifying.


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