DIY led lighting for deep tank - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Regent View Post
Does anyone have any controller suggestions for the above setup? I'd like to run in constant current using PWM Meanwell drivers.
I'm guessing the tc420 works even with high powered COBS?

Sort of..
https://www.tc420.net/connecting-hig...-the-TC420.php
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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A bit of a bodge then, but can be managed to get going unless anyone has a better/easier solution. It should give good control for now. Long term I think I'll look at a raspberry pi solution but that would delay things for now.
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 08:35 PM
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You could buy a pi (note pi 4 has been released) and download reef-pi.. You'd only for now, use the light module part..

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...-progress.html
Kaide has a nice more line item driven package that gives the cool option of linear or gamma dimming..
Tc-421 is wireless and soldering the 5 wires in is relatively painless.
5 channel dozens of LDD's can be run off it..

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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Hi jeff, thanks for all the help so far.
My final plan to start....

4x Fresh fish
4x Crisp white (struggling to actually get hold of these in any package)
would a cree xlamp in 95-98 CRI 3000k be a reasonable substitute?
https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2...16-1507439.pdf
seem to lose the violet peak which is a shame. The alternative is the 90 CRI crisp white.
The other option is to use either marbled or red meat from the fresh focus line

I was going to use one Mean Well LDD-700H for each fresh fish and one Mean Well LDD-300H for each crisp white

I assume I need at least a 300 watt psu running at 48v. This is to give overhead for additional channels in the future.
Any advice for the kind of heatsink I should be looking at. I'm guessing I'll never use these at more than 50% power..

Last edited by Regent; 07-17-2019 at 11:53 AM. Reason: focus line
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 01:22 PM
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Well the whole point of the crisp whitee is the violet diodes so if not available any low K will do.
CREE will be fine.
Low K CRI standard is an incandescent bulb btw.

Out of the Luxeon line "Bread and Pastries " is prob preferred.
To be honest I consider the lower K's an area to save money in.. within reason.
Poor CRI still matters but not as critical.
That said really poor CRI here is ugly..
red meat is low in cyan/green
marbled has an interesting green spike.. like a RGB array.

Heat sinks are kind of tricky..
My pucks run on "surplus" copper finned heat sinks designed for passive cooled CPU's. Ratings are around 40W each.

https://www.heatsinkusa.com/
This gives you an idea of what forms available.
Sadly none are anodized, which really is beneficial in passive cooling.
Active cooling (fans) it's not needed..

https://www.rapidled.com/6-x-12-prem...and-enclosure/
People like these. Note LDD's mounted on a driver board do not fit inside, sadly.
There are workarounds..

https://www.heatsinkusa.com/8-000-wi...inum-heatsink/
Tese are really cool but at $10/ft gets pricey..

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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regent View Post
Hi jeff, thanks for all the help so far.
My final plan to start....

4x Fresh fish
4x Crisp white (struggling to actually get hold of these in any package)
would a cree xlamp in 95-98 CRI 3000k be a reasonable substitute?
https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2...16-1507439.pdf
seem to lose the violet peak which is a shame. The alternative is the 90 CRI crisp white.
The other option is to use either marbled or red meat from the fresh focus line

I was going to use one Mean Well LDD-700H for each fresh fish and one Mean Well LDD-300H for each crisp white

I assume I need at least a 300 watt psu running at 48v. This is to give overhead for additional channels in the future.
Any advice for the kind of heatsink I should be looking at. I'm guessing I'll never use these at more than 50% power..
If it's a 36x24x30 tank you're perfectly fine just using 2 of each COB to get good spread and high light. I use two 3-COB clusters (fresh fish, 3000k, and red) over my 75g and spread is fine. Also I'm running them at 1000mA and I still get 80PAR at the sub at 30% power.

I noticed in your first post you're just trying to grow low-light plants, and you should only have about 25 PAR or less to keep things algae-free. In that case these big COBs are WAY overkill and pretty damn expensive, and you can save a bunch of money going with smaller stuff. My suggestion is to use 4 of each CXB1304 5000k and 3000k mini-cobs. That's the combo I have in my Algae farm tank, along with red and blue LEDs for saturation. @ChrisX also used similar LEDs in his better-documented LED build.

Suggested build:
3ft of makersheatsink slim pricey but gives you everything you need to mount all LEDs (no drilling, tapping, gluing, anything but soldering the LEDs together) and looks slick.
tube-o-Thermal paste
4x CXB1304-0000-000C0UB430G ($3.60 ea)
4x CXB1304-0000-000C0UC450G ($3.60 ea)
8x Luxeon ES red (more if you have red plants to make them pop)
4x Luxeon ES Cool Blue
4x Luxeon ES Royal Blue in series with the Cool Blue or separate
4x LDD-1000H Pin style
1x LDD-700H Pin style
1x LDD driver array board
1x HLG Series PSU (185W 48V Type Blank, will be enough even if you double LED qty)
ESP-WROOM-32 with SSLAC-ESP32 firmware for a controller


Running everything at 1000mA and reds at 700mA will get you plenty of light for a low-light setup. If your tank doesn't immediately burst into algae, you can just double up the LED channels but you'll be surprised at how bright this stuff is.
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringHalo View Post
If it's a 36x24x30 tank you're perfectly fine just using 2 of each COB to get good spread and high light. I use two 3-COB clusters (fresh fish, 3000k, and red) over my 75g and spread is fine. Also I'm running them at 1000mA and I still get 80PAR at the sub at 30% power.

I noticed in your first post you're just trying to grow low-light plants, and you should only have about 25 PAR or less to keep things algae-free. In that case these big COBs are WAY overkill and pretty damn expensive, and you can save a bunch of money going with smaller stuff. My suggestion is to use 4 of each CXB1304 5000k and 3000k mini-cobs. That's the combo I have in my Algae farm tank, along with red and blue LEDs for saturation. @ChrisX also used similar LEDs in his better-documented LED build.

Suggested build:
3ft of makersheatsink slim pricey but gives you everything you need to mount all LEDs (no drilling, tapping, gluing, anything but soldering the LEDs together) and looks slick.
tube-o-Thermal paste
4x CXB1304-0000-000C0UB430G ($3.60 ea)
4x CXB1304-0000-000C0UC450G ($3.60 ea)
8x Luxeon ES red (more if you have red plants to make them pop)
4x Luxeon ES Cool Blue
4x Luxeon ES Royal Blue in series with the Cool Blue or separate
4x LDD-1000H Pin style
1x LDD-700H Pin style
1x LDD driver array board
1x HLG Series PSU (185W 48V Type Blank, will be enough even if you double LED qty)
ESP-WROOM-32 with SSLAC-ESP32 firmware for a controller


Running everything at 1000mA and reds at 700mA will get you plenty of light for a low-light setup. If your tank doesn't immediately burst into algae, you can just double up the LED channels but you'll be surprised at how bright this stuff is.
SpringHalo,

I was meaning to ask about your experience mixing the 5000K and 3000K COBS. Did the 3000Ks help the look? Also, how did the cheap COBs compare to the Fresh Fish build? My current setting is 6500K CXAs mixed with Deep Red epileds.

What LED controller are you using? The TC421 is reliable, but it is pretty bad at experimenting with color mixing.


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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisX View Post
SpringHalo,

I was meaning to ask about your experience mixing the 5000K and 3000K COBS. Did the 3000Ks help the look? Also, how did the cheap COBs compare to the Fresh Fish build? My current setting is 6500K CXAs mixed with Deep Red epileds.

What LED controller are you using? The TC421 is reliable, but it is pretty bad at experimenting with color mixing.

My cube tank is running 2700k and 5000k CXA1304s and I feel the 2700k is too yellow on its own, so I suggested 3000k. My main 75g tank has the 6500k fresh fish and 3000k. I feel an equal mix of the two makes the perfect daylight look, and as evening gets closer I taper off the 6500k to nothing so it matches the warm white lights in my house. Blue LEDs are also very effective at increasing color temp if you want the 6500k look from a 5000k LED.



I've found deep red LEDs (660nm) aren't aesthetically effective because they're 1/6 the visual brightness of regular red (630nm). It takes way more to notice them and then you're adding PAR without more tank brightness. Looking at the hobbyist perspective, plants care more about quantity of light in general than spectrum, and when you add water and glass to the mix, CRI goes out the window. That's why I have 50W ~630nm red LEDs. More redder is more better!



I'm using the controller as mentioned above. It's a pretty well-written software library for the ESP32, and you can solder your PWM wires straight from the drivers to the WROOM board. It's also not amazing for color mixing, but if you limit yourself to 3 or 4 channels (cool white, warm white, blue, and red) it's pretty easy to find something pleasing.

Example pic of 30% FF, 30% 3000k, and 30% 50W red:
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 06:50 PM
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CRI is one definition of "makes the perfect daylight look"... Of course "which daylight"..



FF is spiked in cyan so there is that.."perfect daylight look" includes a healthy proportion of it..

Water attenuation is mostly in the red for us and glass absorption is minimal and fairly even across the visible spectrum.


Tannins and junk in the water throw CRI out the window more than anything.. but I like it to go in at least.. maybe not come out..


MORE of an FYI for some than any "criticism"..

My low maintenance 40 is a good example of screwing w/ CRI.
After awhile I run the tank through Nitrate removing resin which coincidentally removes tannins..
You'd be surprised how many there really are.. and how sometimes unnoticeably they "yellow" your water..
well there are other tannin removing filter components..

Anyways really nice tank..

$100 bluefish mini and you can slide 5 channels to your hearts content..
too bad their programming is simplistic..

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Last edited by jeffkrol; 07-17-2019 at 06:55 PM. Reason: edit
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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Oh wow, loads of new stuff to read and consider!

I have to confess I was loaning to cobs partly for simplicity and partly for the ability to get light down to depth.
If I can get away with two pairs that would really minimise the amount of soldering I need to do!
I was also aiming for high cri but with the ability to spike red. I recognise it may not be the whole picture and may actually not be what I like when it finally arrives.
I was aiming low light as I thought that would be all I'd be able to grow at a depth of 30 inches....

That said I have no aversion to a more complex build if it will give me a lot more tunability..

I quite like the potential of freshfish and marbled meat with the RGB spikes. Hoping it may remove a bit of the yellow.

@SpringHalo that's a lovely looking tank. Off to start playing with your suggested led combo in Spectrum!
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 07:46 PM
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nothing a bunch of colored LED's can't fix..



Depth penetration is more lensing than diode type..
Above tank used 90 degree (or close, forgot which) reflectors and lot of 3W diodes..
runs low % of capability..

Earlier iteration w/ same light..

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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Jeff, that's also a gorgeous tank!

There are so many options it's actually a bit boggling. I think the truth is probably none are actually better, just different approaches?

I have to confess I'm still favouring fresh fish plus friends. Purely for simplicity, even if I have to run at 10 percent..
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringHalo View Post
My cube tank is running 2700k and 5000k CXA1304s and I feel the 2700k is too yellow on its own, so I suggested 3000k. My main 75g tank has the 6500k fresh fish and 3000k. I feel an equal mix of the two makes the perfect daylight look, and as evening gets closer I taper off the 6500k to nothing so it matches the warm white lights in my house. Blue LEDs are also very effective at increasing color temp if you want the 6500k look from a 5000k LED.



I've found deep red LEDs (660nm) aren't aesthetically effective because they're 1/6 the visual brightness of regular red (630nm). It takes way more to notice them and then you're adding PAR without more tank brightness. Looking at the hobbyist perspective, plants care more about quantity of light in general than spectrum, and when you add water and glass to the mix, CRI goes out the window. That's why I have 50W ~630nm red LEDs. More redder is more better!



I'm using the controller as mentioned above. It's a pretty well-written software library for the ESP32, and you can solder your PWM wires straight from the drivers to the WROOM board. It's also not amazing for color mixing, but if you limit yourself to 3 or 4 channels (cool white, warm white, blue, and red) it's pretty easy to find something pleasing.

Example pic of 30% FF, 30% 3000k, and 30% 50W red:
Thanks for the info.

I may try adding a 3000K channel to my 6500K. The 6500k in my light benefits from Deep Red, it might be easier to balance with a 3000K channel.

Re: Deep Red.. I had mad pearling and growth, but also mad algae at what the Seneye saw as 100 PAR. However its debateable if the Seneye sees the Deep Red at all and I have something like 20 x 3W of them, so I think the problem was too much PAR. I may replace them with regular reds because if they have similar visual effect with less PAR, that is a good thing.

I've come to realize that visual brightness with relatively low PAR is a good quality in a light, because it can appear bright without growing too much algae.


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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info.

I may try adding a 3000K channel to my 6500K. The 6500k in my light benefits from Deep Red, it might be easier to balance with a 3000K channel.

Re: Deep Red.. I had mad pearling and growth, but also mad algae at what the Seneye saw as 100 PAR. However its debateable if the Seneye sees the Deep Red at all and I have something like 20 x 3W of them, so I think the problem was too much PAR. I may replace them with regular reds because if they have similar visual effect with less PAR, that is a good thing.

I've come to realize that visual brightness with relatively low PAR is a good quality in a light, because it can appear bright without growing too much algae.
How would you go about designing a light like that chris, what frequencies would you omit/spike?
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 01:46 PM
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How would you go about designing a light like that chris, what frequencies would you omit/spike?

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...e-brew-11.html



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