Help with DIY cerges reactor build... - The Planted Tank Forum
 1Likes
  • 2 Post By PlantedRich
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-20-2018, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
underH20garden's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Jackson Hole, Wy
Posts: 331
Question

Hey guys so i decided to build a cerges reactor I think I understand the concept but not fully.
tank info:
soon to be 40br moss tank with a carpet of some sort and other med light plants hopping to go heavily planted form the start.


some questions:

1. will a 10" housing work? or should I go for the 20" for more dwell time. 20" feels just do big for my tank tho..
2. will 3/4 inlet out let work?
3. I will be running a inline heater should Co2 reactor be before or after the heater?
4. do I need bioballs or other media in the bottom of the reactor?
5. are ball values needed? what would be the benefit ad back pressure?
6. where should the co2 be injected? inline via a bras nipple?
7. if yes for 6 do we need co2 pvc fitting or something?
8. the center piece of pvc down the middle is 1" from the bottom enough space?
9. any updated part list or tutorials on this?

thanks every one.

oh canister filter will be the sunsum 404B

Last edited by Darkblade48; 02-20-2018 at 07:25 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
underH20garden is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 01:36 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
natemcnutty's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,367
I build almost exactly as Griggs did with 2 exceptions: 1) diameter to match flow rate, 2) straight barb instead of elbows.

https://rotalabutterfly.com/rex-grigg/diy-reactor.htm

For a 404b, I've not had to design for that high of flow yet (320 gph is my highest so far). If it were me, I'd probably start with a 3" pipe and make it as tall as I can fit.

I would do heater after reactor, and that would also create a bit of back pressure where you probably wouldn't need a ball valve. I don't create any back pressure with my setups, but I know several of the guys here with way nicer (and bigger) tanks than me swear by it.
natemcnutty is offline  
post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 02:06 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PlantedRich's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 11,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by natemcnutty View Post
I build almost exactly as Griggs did with 2 exceptions: 1) diameter to match flow rate, 2) straight barb instead of elbows.

https://rotalabutterfly.com/rex-grigg/diy-reactor.htm

For a 404b, I've not had to design for that high of flow yet (320 gph is my highest so far). If it were me, I'd probably start with a 3" pipe and make it as tall as I can fit.

I would do heater after reactor, and that would also create a bit of back pressure where you probably wouldn't need a ball valve. I don't create any back pressure with my setups, but I know several of the guys here with way nicer (and bigger) tanks than me swear by it.
While what you say is okay, you might have missed he is building a Cerge's rather than Grigg's?
natemcnutty and natemcnutty like this.
PlantedRich is offline  
 
post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 02:15 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
natemcnutty's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantedRich View Post
While what you say is okay, you might have missed he is building a Cerge's rather than Grigg's?
Thanks @PlantedRich. Selective reading going on over here... Don't mind me *goes back into hiding* lol

Never done a Cerges, so I'm pretty useless there
natemcnutty is offline  
post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 03:32 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (11/100%)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 308
1 - yes, 10" is fine
2 - yes
3 - don't know, don't run inline heater
4 - no
5 - no. Keep in mind, these SunSun filters have pretty weak motors. With all the bends involved AND running an inline heater you are using you probably will not want to reduce the flow any more via ball valves. I suppose they are good for when you need to service it (if ever - I don't think I have serviced mine in the 6+ years I have had it), so if $$ isn't an object, go ahead and include them, but I wouldn't sweat it.
6 - yes
7 - no special fitting needed. Make sure you use a quality check valve though so water doesn't get into your needle valve when CO2 is off. Water will creep back up the line into the needle valve unless you use good quality check valve. Not the plastic junk ones. I have had luck with stainless ones but I can't remember where I got it. I hear you can get them on Amazon. They are probably all made by same manufacturer. It has a metal body with a big arrow on it showing direction of air flow through valve.
8 - should be fine.
9 - haven't looked in a while. I built a very simple version over 6 years ago which works like a champ.



Quote:
Originally Posted by underH20garden View Post
Hey guys so i decided to build a cerges reactor I think I understand the concept but not fully.
tank info:
soon to be 40br moss tank with a carpet of some sort and other med light plants hopping to go heavily planted form the start.


some questions:

1. will a 10" housing work? or should I go for the 20" for more dwell time. 20" feels just do big for my tank tho..
2. will 3/4 inlet out let work?
3. I will be running a inline heater should Co2 reactor be before or after the heater?
4. do I need bioballs or other media in the bottom of the reactor?
5. are ball values needed? what would be the benefit ad back pressure?
6. where should the co2 be injected? inline via a bras nipple?
7. if yes for 6 do we need co2 pvc fitting or something?
8. the center piece of pvc down the middle is 1" from the bottom enough space?
9. any updated part list or tutorials on this?

thanks every one.

oh canister filter will be the sunsum 404B
farrenator is offline  
post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 02:21 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PlantedRich's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 11,818
I do not use the Cerge's either so no real world on that point but there is some info out there about backpressure making a difference and I disagree with that.
I suspect some confusion about "high pressure" and how it is defined. When speaking of industrial processes, even 50 PSI is really not a pressure they think much about. One inch PVC pipe is rarely used as it is too weak but even it is rated at 270PSI!
It is true that higher pressure does make CO2 diffusion better but I don't think that is a factor in reactors of this sort. If we were dealing with an industrial process and increased from 500 PSI to 1000PSI we might see a difference but our reactors are basically open at each end and we can't really build enough pressure to make a difference that we can measure. Not much pressure with a flow that we can stop with our thumb? I run a Grigg's and can still push CO2 in at 4PSI so the pressure inside is less than that.
I consider pressure inside to be a non-factor.
PlantedRich is offline  
post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 03:27 PM
Planted Tanker
 
burr740's Avatar
 
PTrader: (122/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bama
Posts: 5,450
Its amazing to see some folks giving the same pressure argument in every single thread when they havent even tried it themselves to see. I know they've never tried it because if they ever had they would know better.

I cant debate how much psi is inside a reactor, or how much it increases with something like a ball valve partially closed, because I dont know. But what I do know is adding resistance to the "other side" of anything flowing increases the pressure behind it. This is basic physics.

I once caused a Hydor canister filter to start leaking after turning a ball valve down too much. What was that if not too much back pressure?

Here's a guy fixing a cerges by increasing pressure using two filters instead of one, additional pressure is the primary factor


According to some folks it wouldnt matter how many filters this guy connected because as long as the other end is "open" there cant be much pressure...

Hogwash

How much additional pressure does it really take to squeeze out a tiny micro bubble of co2? The answer is not much.

Its an easy theory to test on any reactor that's putting out some mist. Just slap a ball valve after it partially closed down and see what a difference it makes.

The same folks like to counter this point by saying what makes the difference is increased dwell time as a result of slower rate of flow. This is another easy theory to test. Try restricting the flow both before and after the reactor on the same set up and see if there's any difference. The results should be the same both ways if its just a matter of dwell time.

Let me save you the trouble - they wont be.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.





Last edited by burr740; 02-21-2018 at 03:40 PM. Reason: .
burr740 is offline  
post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-22-2018, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
underH20garden's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Jackson Hole, Wy
Posts: 331
thanks for the feedback guys! Its official tank build in progress. ordered a 10" heavy duty RODI housing with pressure release valve yesterday so I am doing a reactor. now just need to get all the other stuff :/
underH20garden is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome