Need opinion on semi auto water change - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2017, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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Need opinion on semi auto water change

Im looking to set one up for my 200 gallon. Ive done it before using a simple float valve/drip system and leave it over night. The water is drained with a small diameter hose and replaced straight from the house plumbing system into my sump via a float valve. But there is no way for me to replace the water taken out with warm water. Therefore, temps drop quite a bit so I don't want to keep doing this.

My new plan is to use my python to directly add the right temperature water into the main tank. My hope is that the overflow will drain the extra water from the main tank into the sump quick enough so that the main tank doesn't overflow. I will have an extra sump pump+float switch (like those found at home depot with built in float switch) in my sump that pumps out the extra water into a drain close by. Alternatively , I can use an existing pond pump that I have and wire in a float switch + relay but that would require more work and I'm not completely sure how to do that yet. I can calculate the amount of time it takes to fill 50% of the tank normally and then account for mixing of old plus new water. This would allow me to set up the hose, set a timer and do other things while semi keeping watch.

In terms of treating the tap water, I usually dose seachem safe directly into the tank while filling and haven't seen any problems. So I would keep doing that.

This wouldn't be completely automatic but would save me the trouble of having to wait for the tank to drain/ fill up and save water because I wouldn't have to keep the tap running to siphon out the water from the main tank using my python.

I hope everything makes sense. Any thoughts ?



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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2017, 07:15 PM
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How much water are you trying to change, and how frequently? How big is the sump?
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2017, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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Trying to do once a week 50%. So around 100 gallons. Sump is 55 gallons

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2017, 10:28 PM
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So if I understand your just trying to find the easiest way to drain 50 percent of the water WHILE you fill the tank?

Ya I think time based. But I would personally suck water from the tank at 50 percent level, just so if anything goes wrong you can't drain the whole thing by mistake
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-09-2017, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchor View Post
So if I understand your just trying to find the easiest way to drain 50 percent of the water WHILE you fill the tank?

Ya I think time based. But I would personally suck water from the tank at 50 percent level, just so if anything goes wrong you can't drain the whole thing by mistake
Hm maybe I'm not explaining correctly. I'm planning to dump in new water into the main tank causing it to overflow into the sump. The sump will continue to fill up as water is being added to the main tank. The job of the sump pump + float switch is to pump out the extra water from the sump in order to prevent overflowing the sump.

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2017, 12:42 AM
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is it possible to drill a hole on your sump to drain excessive water rather than using pump?
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2017, 01:02 AM
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If you added 100 gallons to your tank, how much of that would wind up going into your sump and then down the drain? I'm sure there is math that would tell you, but I would guess almost of it.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2017, 01:12 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by viodea View Post
is it possible to drill a hole on your sump to drain excessive water rather than using pump?
I could drill a hole but the water would have to drain somewhere by gravity alone. My drain is too high to set it up this way.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunhellar View Post
If you added 100 gallons to your tank, how much of that would wind up going into your sump and then down the drain? I'm sure there is math that would tell you, but I would guess almost of it.
Ya, I would need to account for old water mixing with new and probably fill 150 gallons instead.

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Last edited by Darkblade48; 08-10-2017 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2017, 12:36 PM
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Sounds like you know what your doingg or at least want to do.

If you cannot figure out the relay or timer or whatever snap a picture of the diagram on the side of iti and I'm be able to help explain how they function.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2017, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Anchor View Post
Sounds like you know what your doingg or at least want to do.

If you cannot figure out the relay or timer or whatever snap a picture of the diagram on the side of iti and I'm be able to help explain how they function.
Sounds good

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2017, 04:25 PM
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I'd do full auto with floats and only a timer on the drain side of the tank. New water would go into the sump.
I'd put an electric valve on the drain to the sump and divert that water to the drain. As the sump level lowered a float there would refill with the new water. Instead of a massive 50% change once a week that would allow you to do smaller changes every day.

A simple sprinkler timer and sprinkler valve would do the job and only be 24V instead of 120. If I had to add Prime I'd use the same timer to actuate a dose pump.

Since you would be changing less water more often temperature is less of a concern. As for treating the water if you have chlorine only run it through a carbon filter. No treatment is needed after that. And there are ways to break the chlorine ammonia bond and filter that out also without needing to treat while filling.

Dilution is the solution for the pollution.
Quote me as saying I was misquoted.
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Last edited by GraphicGr8s; 08-10-2017 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Add
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2017, 04:28 PM
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Just a thought:

Click image for larger version

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ID:	780041

Temperature controlled faucet... commonly used in a darkroom.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-10-2017, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicGr8s View Post
I'd do full auto with floats and only a timer on the drain side of the tank. New water would go into the sump.
I'd put an electric valve on the drain to the sump and divert that water to the drain. As the sump level lowered a float there would refill with the new water. Instead of a massive 50% change once a week that would allow you to do smaller changes every day.

A simple sprinkler timer and sprinkler valve would do the job and only be 24V instead of 120. If I had to add Prime I'd use the same timer to actuate a dose pump.

Since you would be changing less water more often temperature is less of a concern. As for treating the water if you have chlorine only run it through a carbon filter. No treatment is needed after that. And there are ways to break the chlorine ammonia bond and filter that out also without needing to treat while filling.
This could definitely work. I would need to work out my dosing schedule so I don't waste the ferts im putting in.
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Originally Posted by Oughtsix View Post
Just a thought:

Attachment 780041

Temperature controlled faucet... commonly used in a darkroom.
What does this do exactly and where is it sold ? I do have both a cold and hot water source plumbed right beside my tank. Currently, the hot and cold side meet at a common outlet before it is connected to a float valve in my sump. However, if I have both the hot and cold side turned on, the whole house water system goes wonky because the cold and warm system get mixed (due to the common outlet). Would this temp controller faucet fix this problem ?

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-11-2017, 11:11 AM
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That will not solve your water hammer issue but it could minimize it until it's no longer a problem

(I'm going to assume you have what's knows as "water hammer" or pipes smashing around)

Google can explain better than I can

Usually you just go get a little "water hammer arrestor" for 10$ or so and be done.

I'm assuming your tanks in the basement?
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-11-2017, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchor View Post
That will not solve your water hammer issue but it could minimize it until it's no longer a problem

(I'm going to assume you have what's knows as "water hammer" or pipes smashing around)

Google can explain better than I can

Usually you just go get a little "water hammer arrestor" for 10$ or so and be done.

I'm assuming your tanks in the basement?
I think he is saying that the hot water is backfeeding the cold.

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincel892 View Post
This could definitely work. I would need to work out my dosing schedule so I don't waste the ferts im putting in. What does this do exactly and where is it sold ? I do have both a cold and hot water source plumbed right beside my tank. Currently, the hot and cold side meet at a common outlet before it is connected to a float valve in my sump. However, if I have both the hot and cold side turned on, the whole house water system goes wonky because the cold and warm system get mixed (due to the common outlet). Would this temp controller faucet fix this problem ?

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Put a check valve on the inlets. Should stop the mixing. In my house I have to wait for the water to get hot at most faucets. You don't have that problem?

Yeah I know I can solve that problem with a recirc pump.

Dilution is the solution for the pollution.
Quote me as saying I was misquoted.
Once you get rid of integrity the rest is a piece of cake.
Here's to our wives and sweethearts - may they never meet.
If you agreed with me we'd both be right.
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