Airgas HPT270D - First build, need some guidance. - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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I have been eye-balling some two stage regulators on eBay, since I wanted to eliminate the end of tank dump that I get from my old single stage BioPlast.
Today I made a offer on a Airgas HPT270D at half the asking price, didn't really expect him to accept it but he did so I think I got a great deal?

35$ for the regulator in "Used. Tested. Great working order, minor cosmetic marks". 65$ total shipped, and customs/tax to Norway.

So I got the SMC AS1000M5 Needle/metering valve (brand new, 9$ shipped, also seemed like a good deal) and now I only need a solenoid and a DIN connector and I'm set.

Solenoid I'm thinking the Clippard Mouse solenoid, since it operates on DC so I don't have to worry about the 110v/220v AC.

The questions I got related to this is, will these items work well together and be precise/efficient enough for our use, particularly the needle valve? Seems to cheap to be true, but I've seen @Bettatail recommend it.

Also, any one know where I can get a DIN replacement stem/nut, instead of the CGA?

All the small parts, connector and such I can get cheap from a local supplier here, just not sure if they have the DIN connectors.

Edit: I asked the seller for the full part number/ID, will post as soon as I get a response. Edit2: He couldn't find any other markings relating to ID/Model. Other than DV36770, but that seems more like a serial/unique ID to me.

First obstacle I encountered with the AS1000M5, that it has 10-32 UNC threads on the ports. Pretty uncommon. But If I'm not mistaken, M5x0.8 thread should work too, right?

A lot easier to find M5x0.8 parts compared to 10-32.


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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 02:50 AM
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Not used to seeing the 10-32 UNC, more often the 10-32 UNF so I'm not at all sure on that question but might throw in some thoughts. I like the Clippard mouse series and use them quite often. But I also know there are simply tons of different options and different ways to tie the reg and parts together. WARNING! When dealing with small plumbing, you are in minefield with lots of ways to find parts that "almost" fit.
Even though I do lots of the stuff, I still like to take parts with me and see them work when I run into the weird ones.
One way to ease the question of fitting the solenoid to the rest is the way I tie it together. Rather than add all the parts at the reg, which makes it pretty heavy and awkward to handle and hang on the CO2 tank, I add the solenoid there and then extend tubing to the needle valve, bubble counter, etc.
I find I can often find barb fittings easier than making something like a 10-32 UNF match up to a 10-32 UNC?
I also like to locate the liquid in the bubble counter off and away from the expensive stuff I want to keep dry.
I have the little cheap Fluval bubble counter down out of sight in this picture. Being loose, it makes it easy to grasp to refill.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
First obstacle I encountered with the AS1000M5, that it has 10-32 UNC threads on the ports. Pretty uncommon. But If I'm not mistaken, M5x0.8 thread should work too, right?
Yes. Threads don't "seal" anyways.. It is the o ring/gasket that does the major sealing..
BTW: There is no 10-32 UNC.. #10 wire gauge, 32 threads to an inch is UNF.. UNC would be 10-24 threads/inch..

http://www.engineeredpartsinc.com/pd...onversions.pdf
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantedRich View Post
Not used to seeing the 10-32 UNC, more often the 10-32 UNF so I'm not at all sure on that question but might throw in some thoughts. I like the Clippard mouse series and use them quite often. But I also know there are simply tons of different options and different ways to tie the reg and parts together. WARNING! When dealing with small plumbing, you are in minefield with lots of ways to find parts that "almost" fit.
Even though I do lots of the stuff, I still like to take parts with me and see them work when I run into the weird ones.
One way to ease the question of fitting the solenoid to the rest is the way I tie it together. Rather than add all the parts at the reg, which makes it pretty heavy and awkward to handle and hang on the CO2 tank, I add the solenoid there and then extend tubing to the needle valve, bubble counter, etc.
I find I can often find barb fittings easier than making something like a 10-32 UNF match up to a 10-32 UNC?
I also like to locate the liquid in the bubble counter off and away from the expensive stuff I want to keep dry.
I have the little cheap Fluval bubble counter down out of sight in this picture. Being loose, it makes it easy to grasp to refill.
Thanks a lot for the feedback guys.

About the threads, yeah its 10-32 UNF (as Jeffkrol said). I miss read the table.
I've done a ton of research of my own on the fittings And m5 will fit but it will most likely also damage/strip the threads in the 10-32. So it's a one time deal more or less, can't screw it on and off repeatedly. So I came to the same conclusion as you, use 10-32 to 6mm (size of tubing I'm using) press-fittings. They are easy to come by and cheap. Then I'll use my 3D printer to fashion some kind of support from reg-solenoid. And just mount the needle valve in line with the bubble counter.

Now my issue is the CGA580 (Argon) that comes with the Regulator, need it to be DIN477 nr.6. If it was just a CGA320 it would be much easier, because you can just switch the nut since the stem itself is pretty much identical. But alas. Sent some mails around to local gas suppliers and places that fill CO2. Hopefully some of them have a used I can get cheap.

Also, from what I understand all HPT270 regulators are Victor's, just re-branded. By Airgas in this case.
So for the Regulator, new AS1000M5, new Clippard EV-3-3. Ideally you would want the EV-2, 2-way but this will work, it just exhaust the co2 in the tubing when switched off, fittings and parts. Total at about 90$ inc all shipping and tax to Norway. It would be about 60$ if I lived in the US. If the Regulator is in the condition described, I think I made the deal of the year

I also found a Harris 996 in perfect condition, which is a rather new, expensive regulator for 10. I felt like I won the lottery, until I saw "Local pickup only. UK" and he wouldn't budge on that


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Last edited by Malakian; 04-11-2017 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Typo
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 01:13 PM
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Had no problems w/ putting m5 hose barbs on SMC metering valves btw. No wrecked threads AFAICT.
As to your inlet.. You need something like this?
https://the-gas-safety.co/NUT--STEM-...TH-WASHER.aspx

Looks nothing like a CGA320...


Flat seal but center bump out.. I suppose it is unnecessary though..
I wouldn't exactly trust a nut swap..
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Had no problems w/ putting m5 hose barbs on SMC metering valves btw. No wrecked threads AFAICT.
As to your inlet.. You need something like this?
https://the-gas-safety.co/NUT--STEM-...TH-WASHER.aspx

Looks nothing like a CGA320...


Flat seal but center bump out.. I suppose it is unnecessary though..
I wouldn't exactly trust a nut swap..
We'll, "nothing like a CGA320" is kind pushing it, like saying a salmon and a trout looks nothing alike :P
But yeah, I see what you mean. I've seen several just replacing the nut with no ill effects, but since it's a CGA580 I have to change the whole stem anyways.
Thats why I'm looking for a DIN477 locally. I guess I could use the stem from my old regulator, but then I can't resell it, as I have no use for it once I get the new setup.


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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
So for the Regulator, new AS1000M5, new Clippard EV-3-3. Ideally you would want the EV-2, 2-way but this will work, it just exhaust the co2 in the tubing when switched off,

I may be missing what you are saying --or there may be an error in this?
I think that you will find the EV-3-3 will be a three port (in,out and exhaust) but the exhaust will not be brought out in a way that I can see using it. EV-3O-3 will have the third port brought out as a small pipe on top. We can stick a common 10-32 screw in that port to stopper it. I am using a three port solenoid in the one I picture. If it doesn't have the "O" in the model number the exhaust comes out inside the plastic cover where I see no practical way to stop it. There may be a way but I've not found it?

Is the 3 volt one that is easy for you to find a power supply? I tend to like the 12 volt as they are more common for me to find at salvage shops.

Very good solenoid but they do come in a totally bewildering number of options!

For the stem, the nut can't be changed without removing the stem, so I would look at also changing the stem as it is not a big expense. Locally we are talking less than $10 US. Since the work is in getting the old stem out, perhaps not taking a chance on the old stem is not worth redoing the work?
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 03:06 PM
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Just a small sample observation. Think the AS1000m5 is a fine metering valve ..BUT being spoiled on the likes of Hoke Micromites I find them a bit coarse.. but consistent.
As a small experiment I ran 2 "in-line" and precision was much better...
Please note this trial didn't last very long as I found another Micromite to replace them..Deal too good to pass up, until Ifound it was metric but that is another story..

Just something to think about..They were cheap enough as you well know. bought a bag of 5 At the time and 10 M5 hose barbs..

Might be easier to find a Burkert Solenoid
Oh.. AS1000M5
is m5...
Quote:
MC AS1000-M5 speed ctrl, m5(nom 10/32)
10/32 "fits" but m5 is what the threads are..
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantedRich View Post
Quote:
So for the Regulator, new AS1000M5, new Clippard EV-3-3. Ideally you would want the EV-2, 2-way but this will work, it just exhaust the co2 in the tubing when switched off,

I may be missing what you are saying --or there may be an error in this?
I think that you will find the EV-3-3 will be a three port (in,out and exhaust) but the exhaust will not be brought out in a way that I can see using it. EV-3O-3 will have the third port brought out as a small pipe on top. We can stick a common 10-32 screw in that port to stopper it. I am using a three port solenoid in the one I picture. If it doesn't have the "O" in the model number the exhaust comes out inside the plastic cover where I see no practical way to stop it. There may be a way but I've not found it?

Is the 3 volt one that is easy for you to find a power supply? I tend to like the 12 volt as they are more common for me to find at salvage shops.

Very good solenoid but they do come in a totally bewildering number of options!

For the stem, the nut can't be changed without removing the stem, so I would look at also changing the stem as it is not a big expense. Locally we are talking less than $10 US. Since the work is in getting the old stem out, perhaps not taking a chance on the old stem is not worth redoing the work?
EV-3-3 has exhaust on the top, through several small holes in the "cap". But the exhaust effect will probably do nothing/very little since we have check-valves too, which should only allow for exhausting of the co2 between the solenoid and check-valve. But in all practical sense, it works fine. It will never exhaust from inlet/tank side, just outlet.

As far as I understand it, a 3-way direct acting NC solenoid when powered the Inlet port opens to the Outlet and Exhaust/port 3 is blocked. When it's not powered, the Inlet is blocked, but the Exhaust/port 3 and Outlet stays open. Was that clearer? Not the best at explaining things in English.

Edit: I made a sketch up of what I mean, not the best MS-Paint artist but you get the idea Red line represents the Co2



Flea-bay has several 3v supply, and I probably have some AC-DC supply lying around and use DC-DC converter to lower the voltage if its not 3v.
That's what I'm hoping with the DIN477. But if I know the business in this country correct (anything slightly out of the ordinary = +300% on price). I'm thinking I have to fork out between 30-40$ for the DIN477. But it will have to do, made huge savings on the build after all. So far no luck though, 3 places barley knew what it was.

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Just a small sample observation. Think the AS1000m5 is a fine metering valve ..BUT being spoiled on the likes of Hoke Micromites I find them a bit coarse.. but consistent.
As a small experiment I ran 2 "in-line" and precision was much better...
Please note this trial didn't last very long as I found another Micromite to replace them..Deal too good to pass up, until Ifound it was metric but that is another story..

Just something to think about..They were cheap enough as you well know. bought a bag of 5 At the time and 10 M5 hose barbs..

Might be easier to find a Burkert Solenoid
Oh.. AS1000M5
is m5...

10/32 "fits" but m5 is what the threads are..
So thats what the m5 in the part number stands for, pretty logical though but didn't think of it. So, Standard SMC AS1000 use 10-32 and I just happen to get the m5. Bah, need some extra press fittings then. Nice catch.

I'm a gear-nut when it comes to all my hobbies, so the AC1000 will probably just last me until I got some spare cash to use if I know myself
Nice to know it's a decent needle valve though. I'm gonna use it on a 55g anyways so the "coarse-ness" probably isn't gonna be a issue. But I don't think I would use it in say a Nano tank based on your description.


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Last edited by Malakian; 04-11-2017 at 04:36 PM. Reason: typo
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 04:54 PM
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you got me curious as to what I bought..
Quote:
5 SMC AS1000 pneumatic speed air control 10-32 check valve AS10001032 Festo
did use m5 hose barbs though..
Best I could find is they are both interchangeaqble on a short thread run...

Anyways on to this:
Quote:
EV-3-3 has exhaust on the top, through several small holes in the "cap". But the exhaust effect will probably do nothing/very little since we have check-valves too,
interesting.. actually may be a big bonus in "setting" the check valves shut..
Lack of a back pressure seems to lead some to stay slightly open, allowing water creep up the line..
would work best w/ 30-40psi atomizers..
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Finally found a new DIN477-6 Stem and nut, affordable, 20$. From a home-brewing webshop.
I found 2 other places that carried it locally, but they wanted close to 70$, for what 100gr of brass!?
And the one I got is even chrome plated.

It has 1/4" BSP on the stem though, and most regulator from the US seem to use 1/4" NPT. Minor inconvenience but not a issue, those adapters are pretty much standard.


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