Diy sump redo. Give me all your IMO and 2 cents :) - The Planted Tank Forum
 12Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
Poseydear's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: East Texas
Posts: 25
Scored an oldie but goodie 55 gallon Universal a few weeks ago. Super scratched but holds water like a champ and built like a tank (ba-dum-tish). This thing won't do for a display at all but it would be a perfect swap for the 55 I have set up as sump for my 180 gal display.

You will see in attached pics that the current set-up does the job while being "unsightly". Can't switch the buckets over because eurobracing on replacement tank makes the initial opening 9in wide/deep. I'd like to keep up the low-cost efficiency of the current wet-dry set-up (filter-floss, pot scrubbies, bio bale, return) unless anybody wants to "donate" some K1 to a worthy stay-at-home-mama

Main tank is dual drilled overflows. Two drains and two returns both housed in the overflow boxes. I have a Y installed above the Lifeguard Quiet One Pump for the returns.

Talk to me about baffles, media, baffle placement, media placement, set-ups I can never afford, what has worked for you guys and life. Maybe not life...yes go ahead life.

Tank specs upon request




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Super quick mock-up of what the sump could look like if I didn't change existing plumbing.

Anybody ever had a sump look like this? What I've seen is typically oriented left to right or right to left not outside to middle.

Thoughts?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by Darkblade48; 03-14-2017 at 05:24 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts
Poseydear is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 07:20 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 52
Just started testing my DIY setup this past weekend. It's pretty cheap and simple. Water flows in from the left, fills the chamber, flows over baffle through mechanical filters (30 & 20 PPI Poret), chemical media (likely Purigen) and biological media (Matrix). Flows under the second baffle to the return section with the pump, heaters and ATO.

The green tape on the glass is my reference for operating water level and power off water level. So far I'm pretty happy with it. Got my 1,600 gph pump running full bore and it's working great. We'll see how it does when I add the rest of the media and stock the DT.

I've seen setups like that but don't have any experience with them. A question I have is what are the two inner baffles doing for you?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170313_140753276.jpg
Views:	219
Size:	64.8 KB
ID:	732458  

appleton71 is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 07:46 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
klibs's Avatar
 
PTrader: (29/100%)
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NH
Posts: 3,325
i don't own a sump yet but i love your current setup

gotta keep it ghetto under the stand! cheap, effective, DIY stuff is where it's at in this hobby
appleton71 and appleton71 like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
klibs is offline  
 
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
Poseydear's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: East Texas
Posts: 25
Oh wow. I seriously like your organization. I would probably convert to that if I wanted to tackle plumbing again.
I was under the impression that the two middle baffles would help with water level control. I want all those pot scrubbies to be trickling not submerged but I could be completely mistaken there. I also thought it might be a good idea to have in place if I ever switched the middle chamber over to K1 kaldnes. I could be mistaken there as well is your media chamber completely submerged?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:
Originally Posted by klibs View Post
i don't own a sump yet but i love your current setup



gotta keep it ghetto under the stand! cheap, effective, DIY stuff is where it's at in this hobby


Hah! Thanks! Ghetto works for us. You're right, it's easy to spend waaaay too much money on this hobby


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by Darkblade48; 03-14-2017 at 05:23 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts
Poseydear is offline  
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 08:16 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 52
Your pot scrubbies will be submerged to the height of the inner baffles. My media is currently submerged to the top of the bottom piece of tape.
appleton71 is offline  
post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
Poseydear's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: East Texas
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleton71 View Post
Your pot scrubbies will be submerged to the height of the inner baffles. My media is currently submerged to the top of the bottom piece of tape.


Stink. You are absolutely right. Those secondary baffles won't make a difference for water height at all....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was sure hoping to get a bigger water volume without having to build the wet-dry higher out of the tank. I don't want to decrease head height...grr what a simple mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by Darkblade48; 03-14-2017 at 05:23 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts
Poseydear is offline  
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 08:54 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseydear View Post
I was sure hoping to get a bigger water volume without having to build the wet-dry higher out of the tank. I don't want to decrease head height...grr what a simple mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had the same issue when first planning my sump. It's only about 29 gallons and I couldn't afford to lose volume keeping biolballs up out of the water. After I decided to go with CO2 my layout became much simpler to avoid as much water agitation as possible.
appleton71 is offline  
post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
Poseydear's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: East Texas
Posts: 25
Ehh that won't work for me! I'd have an algae disaster on my hands adding CO2 with my Finnex 24/7 lighting. They just wouldn't be able to keep up. I do love the simplicity of your sump though. It looks super clean.

I'm dealing with the low water level anyway in my current set-up....back to brainstorming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Poseydear is offline  
post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 09:39 PM
Algae Grower
 
Shadar's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseydear View Post
Ehh that won't work for me! I'd have an algae disaster on my hands adding CO2 with my Finnex 24/7 lighting. They just wouldn't be able to keep up. I do love the simplicity of your sump though. It looks super clean.

I'm dealing with the low water level anyway in my current set-up....back to brainstorming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm new to this, but I don't think it works that way. High light with no CO2 = algae. Low/medium light with CO2 = slow growing but happy plants.
Shadar is offline  
post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
Poseydear's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: East Texas
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadar View Post
I'm new to this, but I don't think it works that way. High light with no CO2 = algae. Low/medium light with CO2 = slow growing but happy plants.


You are probably right. I assumed an imbalance on any level caused some variety of algae to grow. My mind came up with: too little light+Co2+ferts=ambitious easy growing algae that steals plant's goodies etc...

But from the above posts we can all see how well my brain is functioning, with two boys younger than 3 and one due in July, brain waves are low!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Poseydear is offline  
post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 02:43 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 16
Do not make your sump anymore complicated that it needs to be. The photo I attached is about as complicated as my make my sumps. The only thing that would need to be changed is the position of the baffle(s) and that would be determined on how you want to separate your sump in terms of functionality.

Keep in mind that baffles are only needed in a saltwater sump because a protein skimmer requires a set working water level. There are no other reasons for baffles other than that.

I still do not understand why so many people want to cram as many pot scrubbers as they can or add layer after layer of foam in the their sumps for biological filtration. Your entire system, display, sump, substrate, wood, rocks, plumbing, plants etc all act as biological filtration. The more stuff you cram in a sump the dirtier it gets and the more pain in the butt is it is to clean and maintain.

Also, do not separate your return pump section from the other areas of your sump just by using poret foam. All the gunk in the poret foam will eventually migrate into your return pump section and get set back into the display. So the only actual "baffle" that I recommend is used to separate your return pump section from everything else.

Bump: Or this sump...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	nextreef-sump1.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	41.4 KB
ID:	732818  

Click image for larger version

Name:	71IiP-AnVvL._SL1500_.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	34.0 KB
ID:	732826  

appleton71 and appleton71 like this.
latent is offline  
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
Poseydear's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: East Texas
Posts: 25
Diy sump redo. Give me all your IMO and 2 cents :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by latent View Post
Do not make your sump anymore complicated that it needs to be. The photo I attached is about as complicated as my make my sumps. The only thing that would need to be changed is the position of the baffle(s) and that would be determined on how you want to separate your sump in terms of functionality.



Keep in mind that baffles are only needed in a saltwater sump because a protein skimmer requires a set working water level. There are no other reasons for baffles other than that.



I still do not understand why so many people want to cram as many pot scrubbers as they can or add layer after layer of foam in the their sumps for biological filtration. Your entire system, display, sump, substrate, wood, rocks, plumbing, plants etc all act as biological filtration. The more stuff you cram in a sump the dirtier it gets and the more pain in the butt is it is to clean and maintain.



Also, do not separate your return pump section from the other areas of your sump just by using poret foam. All the gunk in the poret foam will eventually migrate into your return pump section and get set back into the display. So the only actual "baffle" that I recommend is used to separate your return pump section from everything else.

Bump: Or this sump...


Thanks for your insight. With this knowledge in mind, does that mean the only perk of having a sump over other filtration (hob, canister, sponge, etc.) is the added water volume? From the threads I'd been reading, I was under the impression that the more media, especially highly oxygenated media, the better the bio colony, the better the water quality. But now I'm starting to understand....maybe a more densely planted is a better option for water quality than just bookoos of nitrifying bacteria. It's the plants that actually suck up the nitrate....guess this is why a sump refugium has become popular in freshwater also?

I am so game for cutting out more cleaning work on my part, what media do you use in your uncomplicated sumps?



So I just picked up all the supplies I may need for the build. Got glass cut, and some bronze plexiglass cut to hide potential unbecoming media stacking, silicone, and a full sheet of egg crate.

Essentially, I can start on this as soon as I come to some conclusion on design. I don't want to change up plumbing configuration right now...so I think I'll stick with dividing the sump into those 3 sections via two glass baffles.

Now I'm second guessing my media of choice which happens to be: plastic bio-bale, copious amounts of pot scrubbies, a few ceramic rings and bio-foam/filter floss for the pre filter. I rarely use chemical filtration because I've read it's linked to "Hole in the Head disease" for discus.

Any more suggestions on lightening the media load for easy cleaning?

-Or if it would be better for the set-up to be submerged rather than emerged
-or if I should just scrap the entire idea and let the entire sump should be refugium based with a deep sand bed and hornwort everywhere
Poseydear is offline  
post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
Poseydear's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: East Texas
Posts: 25
Diy sump redo. Give me all your IMO and 2 cents :)

Edit to combine posts

Last edited by Poseydear; 03-14-2017 at 04:07 PM. Reason: Combining posts
Poseydear is offline  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 04:22 PM
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 2,672
I've always wanted to do a sump but I don't need one, just a canister, beautiful sump though
Poseydear and Poseydear like this.
BettaBettas is offline  
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 05:04 PM
Planted Member
 
Nexgen's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Youngstown, OH
Posts: 152
As usual this is a large debate. Some like to take the simple approach and use a baffle or two. These people use very little biological and mechanical media, IMO. Their concern is with making the water volume larger. Personally I don't see the point of this. Yes your adding water volume, thus diluting ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, etc., but that's the issue; all you are doing is diluting, not removing or converting. The way I see it is, you have went through the work of setting up an overflow, getting an extra tank, and plumbing everything. Why not use this space to the best of your abilities?

First just a little background, I have had a sump on my 55g dirted low tech tank for the entire 2 years it has been running. Originally I had a 20g long as the sump and I had only two baffles, one for the intake and mechanical chamber, and another for some pot scrubs (submerged). I had this setup for about a year, and it didn't seem to clean the water all that great. So I tried something else, thus v2 was born. V2 was 2 10g tanks, why I didn't reuse the 20g long is beyond me (mistake). This is what the first 10 looked like

Chamber 1 had mechanical filtration (a course sponge, a fine sponge, and quilt batting). Chamber 2 had pot scrubs, and 3 had some Seachem Matrix. With the rest of the matrix in chamber 4 with the return pump. The second 10g was added later for added water volume and to reduce the time between needing to add water do to evaporation. The second 10g was connected to the first with a water bridge, I also use the second tank as a fry tank. This setup lasted up until last week when I rebuilt the 20g long because the water bridge between the 10s kept loosing siphon.

Sump v3 reused the previous 20g long but added 2 baffles and 2 chambers. The reason for this is I wanted to get as much contact between my biological media and the water as possible. I also have cory cats in the display tank, and when they lay eggs (every 2 weeks), the fry were getting sucked down the overflow and deposited on my mechanical media which was only submerged under the water about 2 inches. This left them very little room to get out of the intense flow and not many survived, I wouldn't find them till my bi-weekly mechanical media cleaning. Don't get me wrong they love the flow but they were getting beaten by the turbulance. So I wanted my first chamber to be just the drain and the second chamber to house my mechanical media. This is the results of my designing

So as I said the first chamber (left to right) is empty, then the second has my mechanical media on a raised piece of lighting diffuser. The third chamber houses my submerged pot scrubs and the 4th houses 1 gallon of matrix. The final chamber houses my heater, return pump and extra biological media for setting up new tanks. The sump is the sealed with acrylic lids, the pump and drain go through bulkheads. Sealing the sump reduces co2 off gassing, by creating an atmosphere, co2 is heavier than o2 so if disturbances are kept at a minimum co2 will fall and o2 will rise. The seal doesn't need to be perfect, the drain is going to suck down some air so you don't want hinder that.
This design is very easy to clean, I drain the sump so that the water level is below the second baffle, this prevents the dirty water, created by removing the mechanical media, from getting into the rest of the sump, thus keeping it clean. I then remove the mechanical media, clean it and replace the worn out batting (usually lasts about 3 months), if needed. With the mechanical media out I can drain dirty water, from the first and second chamber, after checking for fry, and refill the entire sump while replacing the mechanical media. Then it's ready to go for another 2 weeks, like I said this is a low tech tank so that's all the water I change during water changes, except for a 50% change every 6 months. And this tank runs 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites, and nitrates stay under 5ppm consistently, even after a month without cleaning.

Now a little advice, Seachem Matrix is simply pumice stone, you can buy it in 15 lb bags from here for $25 shipped, and 15lbs would probably filter 3 of your tanks no problem, never hurts to have extra though. FYI K1 Kaldnes is impractical in a planted tank because the use of air stones reduces co2 levels, and its overpriced. Lighting diffuser is available at lowes, home depot, etc. for like $10, also called egg crate. Your current design with the wet dry setup can work, its what Tom Barr uses, but the entire sump needs to be meticulously sealed and this makes it hard to clean. Your algae issue is because your using a wet/dry filter, i.e. any co2 added is then gassed off.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Sump.png
Views:	50
Size:	10.8 KB
ID:	732970  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Sump v2.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	30.0 KB
ID:	732978  

Poseydear and Poseydear like this.

55g Low-Tech 40b High-Tech
9g Cube Low-Tech Fluval Spec III High-Tech
40b Low-Tech 72g Bowfront High-Tech
29g Low-Tech

Last edited by Nexgen; 03-14-2017 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Pictures not working
Nexgen is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome