New to the Site: Help Needed Choosing Vero 29 Gen 7 - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
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New to the Site: Help Needed Choosing Vero 29 Gen 7

Hi all,

I've been in and out of the saltwater and freshwater hobby for 25 years or so. I need your advice on a Vero 29 based build for a brackish red mangrove display, which will also have a few seagrasses. I'm 99% settled on Vero 29 (unless you talk me out of it), but I need help decided on the color/CRI combination.

Does anyone have the spectra profiles for all of the combinations? I'm only seeing the one diagram of "typical" values on the Bridgelux site. My indecision is between 80 or 90 CRI and what Kelvin rating. Which would be the best all around choice for the different chlorophylls?

There are other factors to be discussed later (eg, dimming, etc) but I figured we can stick to this topic for now.

Thanks so much!
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 04:28 AM
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Only reason not to use Vero29's is the higher voltage and the "average" drive current of 2.1A..Limits driver availability and cost generally increases.
A partial wash if one uses more lower size COB's to compensate.
Lastly optics "were" difficult to find..not sure if this is true currently.
Larger heatsinks add cost.

To me there is no reason to ever use a lower CRI if a higher one is available and cost differential is not too high.
As to K temp, will depend on the "look" you want..

Vero Decor spectrums..Number before the alpha is K value..56G is 5600K

Might want to take a look at this series. Only 2K choices though:
http://www.luminus.com/products/Lumi..._Datasheet.pdf

Or even these:
BC Series ? High CRI LED Webstore

What made you focus on the Vero's??
and what, exactly is important?

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Jeff,

Thank you for the reply. My reasons for going toward the Vero line are fairly non-scientific: I see a lot of people using them, they are capable of high PAR versus commercially sold fixtures, and they seem to be financially reasonable to build with. When I first started thinking about setting up another aquarium, the 18s were all the rage, so I just went with the "bigger is better" approach and focused on the 29s.

Regarding "looks", I'm completely fine with this light being either yellow or white in appearance, as this aquarium isn't meant to mimic a reef setting. Looking at the spectra you posted, it appears that the 5600K hits better at 450 nm but is flatter at longer wavelengths, whereas the contrary holds true for some of the other color temp options. the 3000K might be better overall? My main question is whether those differences have any biological impact on plant growth or viability. Am I overthinking this aspect?

I do appreciate the help!

Last edited by braavosman; 03-01-2017 at 01:15 PM. Reason: I found the difference between Decor and other: higher CRI
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 01:57 PM
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Gross photons are more important than color temp.
Ideally you would use a mix of high k low k to simulate the temp from sunrise to sunset.
5000k high cri is a very crisp white..

Again building w/ 29's is more expensive in general, if you rely on off the shelf quality drivers.
unless you take the penalty of going to only 1.5A...

$7 LDD's top off at 1.5A so 52W (guesstimate) per chip as opposed to 77W/chip at 2100mA....for$50 a driver per chip.
5v pwm vs 10v pwm/0-10V,pot dimming.

Odd though.. V(f)'s vary from 37V to 68V.. Makes choosing drivers a bit tricky..
Unf. most of the high K ones (90) are high voltage.. just an fyi..

Last edited by jeffkrol; 03-01-2017 at 03:37 PM. Reason: edit
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
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Hmmm, yes, good points and something I will think about. Stumbled on this one while searching around, and from a top level, it's similar to what I'm hoping to achieve (I'm not a pothead lol):

400 Watt Vero29 V7 Linear Framework - Timber Grow Lights
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 04:12 PM
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BXRC-56G4000-F-04.. just for fun

anyways they don't mention which chips..
It sure has enough power..
If you are growing corn.. LOL...

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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Hahaha yep! I inquired about these particular fixtures, and they told me they are using the type B and C chips (all 80 CRI) at 3000K and 3500K. They run the type B at 2.1A and the type C at 1.4A.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 05:46 PM
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This is at 4000k High CRI..(95-ish) Depending on your own personal goals.. may be to "yellow/red" rich for many.
BTW: Looks better in person...photo was slightly massaged to reflect "human perception" better.. but not accurate...


I could almost guarantee that at 3000-3500k you will be adding blue down the road..except for a blackwater look..

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks very much, Jeff. I will continue to research options.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, so been doing a lot of reading on DIY LED and how everything works, and i agree that I will probably want to supplement on the blue end. I'm definitely convinced of the value of higher CRI COBs, so I'm going to base the build on the Vero Decor series: Décor Series? | Bridgelux, Inc. LED Lighting

Goals:
(1) To mimic sunlight in a shallow water saltwater lagoon setting. So ideally, accomplish a fairly "white" appearance overall while hitting all of the spectra for growth and color, and while helping the colors of the fish "pop".
(2) Use PWM dimming so that I can independently control the different color channels throughout the day. It would be great to have moonlight options, dawn/dusk options, and increase intensity to peak levels during the day.

Main questions:

(1) Is there general rule on appropriate ratios of COB colors to accomplish my goal, let's say for an 8' x 3.5' footprint? The PPFD requirements for mangroves are pretty high.
(2) Assuming money is not an issue, is there a "best" way to set everything up (ie, series vs parallel, underdriven or not, etc)? I'm aware of the potential for "runaway" current with parallel, but I'm not overly familiar with the best ways to remedy this.

Last edited by braavosman; 03-04-2017 at 02:33 PM. Reason: typo
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 12:44 AM
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Assuming money is not an issue.. A $7 Driver/COB isn't a problem really..
For the sake of argument... Assume 8COB pairs (1 pr every 2x2ft) .so 16 channels that,if one chooses can run independently of each other. 8 zones so to speak

The odd part would be to get the smallest COB for the lowest k and largest COB for the highest k since you will probably want the whitest possible white for the longest period of time

Now one assumption is that this is all close to the surface and doesn't require lensing..
That would just complicate things..

Moonlight is technically 4000k, though we perceive it as bluish white..
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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Good ideas there, Jeff. The lights will need to hang 2-3 feet above the tank I'm guessing. I'll do some more digging on COB combinations.

So looking further, the highest output 90 CRI Decor COBs (2700K, 4000K, and 5600K) produce 14000 to 17000 lumens and run at 1700 mA with a Vf of 69.4V. The Meanwell HLG-240H-C1400 (89-179V, 1400 mA) should definitely work for these. There is also a HLG-240H-C1750 (89-143 V, 1750 mA), but I'm guessing that even being slightly more than 1.7A would blow those COBs?

Last edited by braavosman; 03-06-2017 at 12:35 AM. Reason: edit
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 12:19 PM
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HLG-240H-C1750
current is adj from 875-1750mA
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/260/HLG-2...pec-806189.pdf

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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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Oh awesome!!! Thanks for finding that!

Okay, so have done a fair amount of reading on the pothead forums (some really valuable information there lol). For a 4' x 6' area, how about the following? There isn't such a thing as overkill is there?

-- 12 x BXRC-56G10K1-C-74: 5600K; 90 CRI; 1.71A; 69.4V; 17,554 lm; 148 lm/W
-- 6 x BXRC-27G10K0-C-7X: 2700K; 90 CRI; 1.71A; 69.4V; 14,708 lm; 124 lm/W
-- Meanwell HLG-240H-C1750A (0.875A-1.75A) or dimmable "non-A": One per 2 COBs or 1 COB, haven't decided yet

I'm still looking at heat sink options, and I can't decide on active or passive, but I'm leaning toward active. This will be in a very well insulated space but not air conditioned (I will probably add a small portable A/C unit to the room). Any pros/cons about led-heatsink.com?

It looks like the mangroves I will be purchasing are already 4 to 6 feet tall, so this is gonna be really sweet, I think. My ceilings are very high, so no worries

Last edited by braavosman; 03-09-2017 at 02:53 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts
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