[Help] LED build for 90P - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 12:52 AM Thread Starter
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[Help] LED build for 90P

Hello everyone,

Seeking advice from any LED-gurus that might be lurking around these days.

Looking at replacing my 150w 7000k led-spot pendant for a cleaner looking controllable fixture. If money was no objekt I would build something like a watercooled 2 or 3 piece Lumia 5.2 system, but since money is tight (itīs hard being a student again) I started looking at DsunY and their freshwater 36" wifi unit. It is the the cheapest controllable, yet still powerful ficture I could find that looks ok and does not rest on top of the aquarium also almost falls within budget. However, this light is made out of sub par (no pun intended) components even for the price shipped to Sweden so... With upgrades it would end up costing more.

So what Iīm looking for in a fixture:
  • Good spectrum!
  • Controllable
  • Pendant style fixture. This means optics so I can have it high up.
  • Does not need to be crazy powerful. Medium light is OK.
  • No disco effect


Now Iīm thinking maybe a Bluefish controller combined with a 5-channel LDD board and a meanwell powersupply from china. And then add 2 custom made 5-channel led chips 60usd a piece. Everything running at about 50%.

What would you guys do? Any thoughts?

Sweden | ADA 60P | ADA 90P | DIY LED-lighting

Last edited by Matsnork; 02-12-2017 at 01:04 AM. Reason: added spectrum
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 02:09 AM
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What I would do depends on what day it is,


Next knowing what you exactly mean (or what diodes are available) by "5 channel cutom made chip"
What diodes/what colors?
Anyways you might find this interesting.

https://www.plantedtank.net/#/topics/...e=11&_k=i7m6jj
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 03:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
What I would do depends on what day it is,


Next knowing what you exactly mean (or what diodes are available) by "5 channel cutom made chip"
What diodes/what colors?
Anyways you might find this interesting.

The Planted Tank
Sorry, itīs hard getting all this tech stuff across english not being my first language.

By custom chip Iīm trying to say multichip. The current seller can adjust the channels on demand close to the spectrum of the Lumia 5.2 planted if I so choose. Every multichip out there is aimed for salt water it seems.

"Channel 1 - XT-E Warm White 2700K (16V @ 1500mA)
Channel 2 - XT-E Warm White 3200K (16V @ 1500mA)
Channel 3 - 3x 660nm Deep Red 2x XT-E Royal Blue (13V @ 700mA)
Channel 4 - XT-E Cool White 5000K (16V @ 1500mA)
Channel 5 - XT-E Cool White 6000K (16V @ 1500mA)"

The idea is to control these channels (2 multichips) with a bluefish mini @ 5-channel LDD board with meanwell 1000h drivers.

Iīve seen plenty of diy builds like this but I do not know if the single point multileds are better than spread out single 3w leds or if the two 100w multichips Im pondering are enough for ok tank coverage.

On the plus side of things Iīm thinking:
Little or no disco effect. Less soldering. Smaller footprint and possibly a cleaner pendant look to the finished fixtures.

Sweden | ADA 60P | ADA 90P | DIY LED-lighting
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 04:37 AM
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Lumina's are not, personally speaking, the best for the dual (and somewhat opposing) goals of human vision and plant needs..
For fun w/ spectrums (since you can get custom built) I'd play around w/ this:
SPECTRA
Small example..based on 25 diodes..one of an almost infinite combinations that are similar
Quote:
* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
LED RoyalBlue (450nm) [120°] x1
LED Blue (470nm) [120°] x1
LED Cyan (500nm) [120°] x2
LED DeepRed (660nm) [120°] x3
LED CoolWhite (8000K) [120°] x8
LED NeutralWhite (4000K) [120°] x5
LED WarmWhite (3000K) [120°] x5
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 2,348 lm
Radiant flux : 8,919 mW
PPF : 40.4 umol/s
TCP : 6760 K
CRI : 98
λp : 453 nm
Color : #FFD1E7
----------------------------------------

* PERFORMANCE @ 30cm
----------------------------------------
Irradiance : 10.5 W/mē/s
Illuminance : 2,769 lx
PPFD : 47.6 umol/mē/s
----------------------------------------

by SPECTRA 1.0β @ 1.023world
SPECTRA

your tank is roughly 35x18x18

The advantage to pucks is easier "ripple effects" and building. I suppose ease of blending goes into that as wel, though this is a bit of a wash.
I don't think you can ever realty get overall even coverage w/ them but approaches this w/ depth as your cones blend.
Even gets harder w/ fewer pucks..
Like the difference between 2 and 4 pucks run at 1/2 current..You will get better overall coverage w/ 4.

The good thing w/ 3W individual LED's is the higher they are above the water line the more they naturally blend.
Each can be as good as the other w/ correct design..

Puck design, ideally should have every "color" on a separate channel R,G,B,WW,CW,(Violet).
At best grouped like (Red,orange) (blue,royal blue, (cyan)(violet)) (Cyan,green) (warm whites) (Cool whites).
Some manuf. constraints and limits do come into play.
Like the above pattern does not fall well into the 5 diode/5 row pattern..

Crude analysis of the custom puck you listed
It will work fine..just not what "I" consider ideal.
I assume CREE still doesn't have cyan available..



CREE based puck
#1... 3 photo red 2 warm white
#2... 3 warm white, 2 neut. white
#3... 3 neut. white, 2 cool white
#4... 5 cool white

#5 1 royal blue, 2 blue, 2 cyan (sub blue/rb/violet for cyan if not available, suppose you could throw a green in)

Last edited by Darkblade48; 02-13-2017 at 08:25 AM. Reason: edit
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Lumina's are not, personally speaking, the best for the dual (and somewhat opposing) goals of human vision and plant needs..
For fun w/ spectrums (since you can get custom built) I'd play around w/ this:
SPECTRA.....
Thank you for those awesome posts. Really appreciate it. Sorry I donīt have the stamina for a really long retort haha.

I will definately give that Spectra a try. I really donīt understand why the manufacturers canīt seem to get it right. Every new fixture seems to lacking in spectrum yet manufacturers claims to have created the "perfect" lighting yada yada [insert marketing hype.]

After giving this project some more thought after your input Iīm probobly going to go with multichips and a small pendant/spotlight design inspired by Kessil, or as an alternative, a really thin sleek heatsink with "ordinary leds".

I really like how small footprint fixtures declutter the line of sight. Iīve seen so many beautiful scapes ruined by ugly hardware. I want to be able to have branches and plants above the water line in future scapes...

Design idea

Cylindrical fixture housings with active cooling. Same basic principle as my current build.
Iīm thinking 2-3 units for coverage. I will make them pretty wide as to fit a low rpm 120mm computer fan. Bigger fan -> lower rpmīs -> less noise.
10 lead cable that cable will also act as a wire for suspending the unit and the power supply/drivers/controlling will be located in the stand for a cleaner look.

What I think I need for this project:

* 2 x 5-channel 100w multichips or 3 x 50w multichips.
* Round heatsinks and adjustable optics.
* LDD-driver board with matching meanwell LDDs.
* Meanwell power supply 48v.
* 10 lead cable. Not sure what wire to get though, XLR 10 lead cable maybe?
* Bluefish controller with 12v power supply.

Thats all Iīve got for now. Had to get my thoughts out there.

Edit: I think I found my connector:

Sweden | ADA 60P | ADA 90P | DIY LED-lighting

Last edited by Matsnork; 02-14-2017 at 01:10 AM. Reason: Typo
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
I really donīt understand why the manufacturers canīt seem to get it right. Every new fixture seems to lacking in spectrum yet manufacturers claims to have created the "perfect" lighting yada yada [insert marketing hype.]
Well one could write a small thesis on it..
Some of what I think are just common practice. Some perception (like designing a fixture that should run, say the red channel at 25% right out of the box.. Most people would just fire it full and go yuch.
Or question paying so much to use so little..

Then there is perception, like assuming 6500k leds are like 6500k tubes.. Spectrum is way different.
Then there is the MH asian perception that crisp blue white is "the" tone ect..
Then there is available parts.. Like designing around CREE.. no cyan or violet.
Every brand (few companies mix suppliers in fw lighting. Again circuitry gets more complex.
A bit more common in refs because UV/Violet is more of a "must have" diode..esp. in upper end units..

Now to add to this there is "good enough".. Plants adapt to enviro. conditions inc. lighting..
Then there is the science is not even fully established...

Heck I even compromise on my own builds.. Never used violets (w/ the exception of a soraa chip cut out of a bulb) and have a few builds w/ no cyan.. but use high CRI diodes.
My belief based on my perception is high CRI (at d65) makes everything look good.. w/ some penalty of overall look w/ lower k temps..
Personally if one forgoes the ability to shift color temp, or can live w/out violet it is pretty easy to do a one chip solution..as long as the CRI is high..

Quote:
Cylindrical fixture housings with active cooling.
Why active cooling is a short cut for poor design or pricepoint goals..
A cheap fan is more economic than properly designed heatsinks, circuitry, and cheap diodes.. (end of soapbox)

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. Itīs nice to have a bit of a rant about "non important matters" with all the strange stuff going on in the world.

Regarding the the active cooling part it is someting I have actually given alot of thought, and also the part of the build I feel pretty confident dealing with me being an old computer cooling nut. It got so bad at one point I had water cooling, peltier cooling and compressor cooling in the same PC. That was about 13 years ago and now Iīm more sensible about that sort of thing...

The active cooling is just a compromise I felt I had to make too keep such a powerful light within a small formfactor. Kessil and nanobox are inspirations.

Still looking at options. Any input on Bridgelux's EB series?
EB Series Modules - Bridgelux | DigiKey

Sweden | ADA 60P | ADA 90P | DIY LED-lighting
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
The active cooling is just a compromise I felt I had to make too keep such a powerful light within a small formfactor.
Nope.. It is to keep cost down..



Quote:
High Bay Cooler w/ CoolTube phase change heat pipe; up to 30,000 lumen;
At 150L/w that translates to passive cooling of a 200W chip..(rated 228W)
Diameter:
192 mm
Height:
250 mm

10" high..7 1/2" diameter...
A BIG soda can..
Keep in mind that is 200W.. Largest Kessil is 90...........

smaller 35W passive, about a Kessil 160..:
https://northerngrowlights.com/produ...nt=20678863684

4" diameter..2.3" height..



82W...
https://www.aavid.com/led-cooling/wa...d-heatsink-82w

Round Size: 144mm x 112mm x 42mm
5.6x 4.4 x 1.65" tall....
https://www.aavid.com/sites/default/...ruary-2015.pdf
Granted a Kessil is only
3.8" x 4"

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by jeffkrol; 02-15-2017 at 03:43 AM. Reason: edit
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