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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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GE silicon type 1

I have seen in a few diy threads that people have been using GE silicon 1 to seal the panes of glass together. I was just about to start this process, And i read at the bottom under the Instructions portion: Not for use under the water line or aquariums.
The bottle i have in my hands says. GE Silicon 1. Clear Waterproof Silicon.
Is this the wrong bottle or are we not going by the instructions when using this in aquariums?


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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 01:11 PM
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not going by instructions, GE is basically covering there butt against law suit's that way.

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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ok thank you, I didnt feel like opening it if it wasnt going to hold. To the tank i go! Cheers!


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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 01:28 PM
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I was always told that the plain GE silicone is OK to use, not the GE II.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replys guys, i just finished re seaming my new 45g and a old 10g i found in a closet. Time for bed, Ive been up since 3pm yesterday. Goodnight/day everyone!


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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 07:48 PM
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RTV silicone is supposed to be better, but did not do any better job for me. Maybe I am not applying it right.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 08:17 PM
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There are many differences between silicone that should be addressed. GE Silicone I is a bit harsh to work with due to the fact that when it cures it gives of acetic acids. This is because of the chemical make-up of the product itself. The odor and affects on eyes/skin/etc. is one reason for the development of Silicone II. Silicone II gives off ammonia when it cures. Part of the development of Silicone II also included the implementation of strengthening and adhesion compounds. To that effect they found that they could "play" with the make-up of these compounds to get many different results. One of the results was anti-biological, not all versions of Silicone II are anti-biological in nature though a significant portion is.

Warning very technical info following:
Quote:
Polysiloxanes with 3-(alkyldimethylammonio)propyl pendant groups were synthesized by quaternization of n-octyldimethylamine or n-dodecyldimethylamine with linear polysiloxanes containing 3-chloropropyl groups and/or 3-bromopropyl groups attached to silicon atoms. The precursor polysiloxanes, poly[(3-chloropropyl)methylsiloxane] homopolymer and various copolymers containing (3-halogenopropyl)methylsiloxane and dimethylsiloxane units, were obtained by equilibrium cationic polymerization of linear and cyclic siloxanes with (3-halogenopropyl)methylsiloxane units. The polysiloxanes bearing quaternary ammonium salts (QAS) showed bactericidal activity against bacteria such as Escherichia coli and Aeromonas hydrophila when incorporated in a polysiloxane network. The activity was retained after 66 days of immersion in water. The QAS-containing polysiloxanes are also active in aqueous solution. 2000 John Wiley & Sons, Inc. J Appl Polym Sci 75: 1005-1012, 2000
Quote:
Quaternary ammonium cations, also known as quats, are positively charged polyatomic ions of the structure NR4+ with R being alkyl groups. Unlike the ammonium ion (NH4+) and the primary, secondary, or tertiary ammonium cations, the quaternary ammonium cations are permanently charged, independent of the pH of their solution. Quaternary ammonium cations are synthesized by complete alkylation of ammonia or other amines. For possible synthesis route, see amines.
Quaternary ammonium salts or quaternary ammonium compounds (called quaternary amines in oilfield parlance) are salts of quaternary ammonium cations with an anion. They are used as disinfectants, surfactants, fabric softeners, and as antistatic agents (e.g. in shampoo). In liquid fabric softeners, the chloride salts are often used. In dryer anticling strips, the sulfate salts are often used. This is also a common ingredient in many spermicidal jellies.
In organic chemistry, quaternary ammonium salts are used as phase transfer catalysts for reactions involving immiscible solvent systems, such as the synthesis of dichlorocarbene with chloroform and sodium hydroxide.
The synthesis of this cation from ammonia is referred to as quaternization.
Through exhaustive methylation, or the Hofmann Elimination process, a quaternary ammonium iodide salt is formed. The alpha-carbon (relative to the nitrogen) is deprotonated once by a hydroxide anion from H2O and the electrons form an alkene. Subsequently, the electrons from the carbon-nitrogen bond are pushed onto the nitrogen. This sets up a tertiary amine as the leaving group.[1]
Large quaternary ammonium salts are typically obtained by alkylating tertiary amines. This process begins with a tertiary amine, to which is added a cationic alkyl group from an alkyl chloride. Typically one of the alkyl groups on the amine is larger than the rest.[2] The equation for this is:
RN(CH3)2 + ClR → N(CH3)2R2+ + Cl−
where R is the large alkyl group.
Certain long alkyl chain quaternary ammonium compounds are used as antimicrobials and disinfectants. Examples are benzalkonium chloride, benzethonium chloride, methylbenzethonium chloride, cetalkonium chloride, cetylpyridinium chloride, cetrimonium, cetrimide, dofanium chloride, tetraethylammonium bromide, didecyldimethylammonium chloride and domiphen bromide. Also good against fungi, amoeba, and enveloped viruses,[3] quats act by disrupting the cell membrane and proteins. Quats kill just about everything except endospores, Mycobacterium tuberculosis, lipid-containing viruses, and Pseudomonas spp. (some Pseudomonas spp. can even grow in solutions of quats, subsisting on them).
In contrast to phenolics, quats are not very effective in the presence of organic compounds. Yet quats are very effective in combination with phenols. Quats are deactivated by soaps, other anionic detergents, and cotton fibers.[4] Also, they are not recommended to be used in hard water. Effective levels are at 200 ppm.[5] They are effective at temperatures up to 212F.[6]
Along with sodium hypochlorite, quats are the primary chemicals used in foodservice industry as sanitizing agents.
If inhaled or in contact with the skin, quats may cause skin and respiratory irritation.[7] They are proposed to be the responsible group for causing anaphylactic reactions to occur to neuromuscular blocking drugs during general anaesthesia in surgery.[8]

www.organic-chemistry.org
Kosswig, K (2002): “Surfactants” Ullmann’s Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry
Specific Antimicrobials, outline of lecture by Stephen T. Abedon, Ohio State U., URL accessed Dec 2008.
Specific Antimicrobials, outline of lecture by Stephen T. Abedon, Ohio State U., URL accessed Dec 2008.
The Use of Disinfectants In the Swine Industry, Mark G. Ladd, North Carolina State Univ., URL accessed Dec 2008.
Matching the Right Disinfectant to the Job, Michelle Gardner, URL accessed Dec 2008.
http://www.ehjournal.net/content/pdf/1476-069x-8-11.pdf
Harper, N. J. et al (2009): "Suspected anaphylactic reactions associated with anaesthesia", Anaesthesia, 64(2):199-211
All Silicone can have it's make-up modified to include different chains of quaternary ammonium salts. These have a direct anti-biological effect. Hard water may even make the effect stronger. There are toxins, they may or may not affect your fish, your mileage may vary. Generally any Silicone with these chains is identified with some sort of label stating BIO Seal or Anti Fungal or Mildew, etc. Not all Silicone is labelled. It is recommended then that you choose the safest "known good" product, generally Silicone I (or competitors versions such as DAP) without a "BIO Type" label.

As a rule silicones are not marked as safe for underwater use unless they have submitted a sample for testing. Companies that do this are regulated on the exact make-up of the silicone. They generally charge a severe mark-up for the product as it is in no significant way different than the generically marketed tubes that are much much less expensive. The easiest thing to do is to look for regular Silicone I (or another brand name silicone I product) and review the label for "Bio Type" messaging. These are normally associated with Kitchens and Bathrooms (anti mildew or mildew resistant).

I cannot imagine that there is a significant increase in bond strength with Room Temperature Vulcanizing silicone. It may be faster and easier to work with for some.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 10:50 PM
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GE 1 is what I used on all of the tanks I built in my life ( I'm making it sound like I'm 50 years old haha ) I built couple tanks, all were rimless and biggest one is approx 120gal ( 42x31x20 ) THAT SAID you're good to go with GE 1
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