What's up with these "Learn to make planted tank" websites - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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What's up with these "Learn to make planted tank" websites

I recently met a gentlemen who started keeping planted tanks last year. He has 5 tanks and all the tanks had the same sticker on them- "XYZ's Planted Tank". I was confused with that sticker so I asked him what are these.
What he told me was quite interesting and so I thought I'd share with you all.
So when this elderly friend of mine was trying to get into the hobby he found this youtube channel and liked the simplicity of the videos. He started talking to this guy and he helped him setup the first tank.
Since then he has made 5 other tanks (2 40Breeders 20longs etc). This XYZ guy promotes Dirt method which is nice.

What I found weird is that this XYZ guy sells "How to make planted tank" DVDs on his website for $45-$100. He also sells plants like vallisneria, amazon swords and anubias as "Planted Tank Packages" for $100-$150. Now that is ridiculously overpricing these plants. A bunch of val, some rotala, 2 crypt wenditii and some star grass for $150? I could not believe that.

That made me think how difficult is it to come on the internet, find this forum and learn things FOR FREE. Members here sell their plants at very reasonable price. How difficult is it for a person to get here?

When I told my elderly friend about TPT, his reaction was "I am happy with XYZ guy". Is it lack of motivation?
If a member joins this forum, he tries to go up (from dirt to ferts then to CO2 to branded soil, delicate plants etc) but my friend there likes a few plants in his tank which are just hanging in there.

I couldn't understand his mindset there.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 04:09 PM
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Some folks love the craft, some only want the finished project. Most of the folks here want to learn to do it ourselves, we're willing to take risks and trying new things is the point of the game--whether we're moving "up" as you put it, or learning the finer points of wringing the greatest beauty from a low tech set up.

For the rest, having a packaged deal takes all the worry and responsibility off their heads. And, since they're not invested in gaining status by having -learned- to do all this by themselves, they instead see, and can claim to others, status in a) having paid a lot and b) being part of an elite group who are "special" for being connected to someone who gets paid a lot for what they do. Peversely, the more they realize they're being duped, the harder they'll fight to believe they're getting a good value.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 12:55 AM
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Darn. Wish I'd thought of that...
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 01:23 AM
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I sadly must admit that I once owned a pet rock. I was so proud of that stupid rock. Just thought I would throw that out there.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 02:06 AM
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All I can say is "not everyone shops at Saks" - just because TPT has over 2 million posts from all different forums members; search engines like google, yahoo, youtube,etc etc will index keywords differently and pull up this XYZ guy before planted tank. So while some people find TPT; others will find either on youtube or the website. Then you have over 20 more forums related to planted tanks and on top of that; over 500+ freshwater aquatic websites being indexed by google.

For the DVD's and what-not, information is free but gathering or looking for it is the hard part. Now i'm the guy that look for hours to find the connections I need; whether it is hardscapes, plants, or aquariums. I've seen the same quality range of products from dirty cheap to the guy you speak of and everything in-between. But this comes with a key component - Time. While I'm ok with wasting time to save a buck, some people find their time more important and would rather just pay.

Anyways, As long as the guy is producing great content and helping the hobby instead of harming it, i'm happy he's out there. For people with brands, I did fall for the Fluval Edge 6g because of the pretty videos and pictures of planted tank.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 08:26 PM
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Must be Dustin's site lol. But then the world is never short of things one can overpay for; how much do you think sport shoes like Nike cost to make? In this hobby we also have people that use liquid ferts while dry ferts are available. At the top end we have people that will consider ADA stuff generally over-priced, while others are happy with it.

I think that as a free market, value/price is up to each of us to decide. However my peeve with many of the youtube channels/vids is that the quality of advice in general is terrible; the science is severely lacking. A guy grows some java fern and dwarf sag and suddenly its a channel giving planted tank advice. At least in forums there is discourse that allows people with differing experiences to vet what is written, or provide links to external research.

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 10:22 PM
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Agreed -- but it is probably better than the nonsense that PetChains pass of as "advice" (;-)
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-30-2014, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaozhuang View Post
Must be Dustin's site lol. But then the world is never short of things one can overpay for; how much do you think sport shoes like Nike cost to make? In this hobby we also have people that use liquid ferts while dry ferts are available. At the top end we have people that will consider ADA stuff generally over-priced, while others are happy with it.

I think that as a free market, value/price is up to each of us to decide. However my peeve with many of the youtube channels/vids is that the quality of advice in general is terrible; the science is severely lacking. A guy grows some java fern and dwarf sag and suddenly its a channel giving planted tank advice. At least in forums there is discourse that allows people with differing experiences to vet what is written, or provide links to external research.
The sad reality is that this hobby has too much information flowing in and out from all sources that the real, valid and important info sometimes pushed aside, ignored, left out, buried or simply forgotten.

I actually wish TPT would start "collecting" information and putting them under one location. The members of this forum can surely help make sure the information is up to date and correct (in a way) and help lessen all the misinformation.


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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-31-2014, 12:10 AM
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I find a few of the folks on here to be convinced that throwing money into a tank solves all
issues and don't waste my time telling me that I need to learn something.
These "Grow plants like a Pro" sites feed on those type of people.
I have trouble/w social skills and find it hard to make statements that don't sound like
I am a know-it-all and so forth. Being a member here takes social skills. Perhaps those
people who like the sites you are speaking of lack the social ills necessary to
navigate a site like this or are just not willing to try to have a more personal
relationship with other people that sort of comes with being a member here.
I feel that lots of you helped me build my tanks. And I also get to feel helpful at times.
Perhaps these are things those people have no use for.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-31-2014, 12:48 AM
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-31-2014, 02:24 AM
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I found this site by chance and am thrilled with what I am reading. I have been on other sites and they are strange and filled with spam or being over run with children and very poor information. One I used to like has gone very downhill recently due to that as well. How do you lessen the misinformation? You cannot trust anything from the lfs. You can google some things and find the common information and hope that is true. Hopefully find a site like this and pray that it remains intact. What else can be done?
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-31-2014, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farm View Post
I found this site by chance and am thrilled with what I am reading. I have been on other sites and they are strange and filled with spam or being over run with children and very poor information. One I used to like has gone very downhill recently due to that as well. How do you lessen the misinformation? You cannot trust anything from the lfs. You can google some things and find the common information and hope that is true. Hopefully find a site like this and pray that it remains intact. What else can be done?
You'll never get rid of misinformation, best to check with multiple sources and look for consistency. I try to answer questions that I know from personal experience, if I've done it I'll write about my experience, if I haven't then I'll move on. A lot of people will parrot what they hear especially lfs but there's always one or two old dogs who know what their talking about.


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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-31-2014, 09:36 PM
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I do agree with that... I know what I know and read the things I do not! I do a lot of reading! lol! I know a few people I have met of late that I run ideas past and listen to opinions from. What would the world be like without the "old dogs" right?
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-17-2014, 10:23 AM
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I've been posting on internet forums since I was a child with Windows 98 and a 56K modem so I'm already well aware that there are forums for absolutely EVERYTHING. Back then I realized that software problems were a part of everyday life (ugh...especially with Windows 98) and that the tech-support guys on the other end of the phone didn't actually know very much. This led me to join a number of tech forums and solve the myriad computer problems we were having as nobody in the house knew how. Now my first instinct with highly technical questions is to look for the forums where these sorts of questions are answered through discourse. There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all answer for such questions despite the internet being blasted with pseud-wise answers to open-ended questions.

I really think its a question of exposure and generational differences. A lot of older people find the internet intimidating or don't know how to properly use a search engine (specific keywords only). And not to single them out as plenty of people my age as well as Millennials are nothing more than machine operators with no appreciation of the finer workings or a cohesive understanding of how to critically approach technical problems. My uncle was really stressing over some sort of cylinder alignment issue or something he was having while rebuilding the engine on an ancient IH LoadMaster dump truck because he has accumulated considerable individual knowledge on vehicle mechanics. I suggested that he check internet forums and he snorted a bit, as it was his understanding that forums are for niche, oddball interests for oddball people that sit in front of a computer all day. (Guilty!) But when he actually checked the forums for his answer he was totally blown away by the depth and breadth of information available for his specific antique! Now that is his go-to solution when he doesn't understand a problem with one of his resto jobs--soundboard the forum! Once people understand that there are no new questions to be asked and that all the power is at their fingertips then they never go back. If we could only just get them to take the leap in the first place they could share knowledge with us that may be intrinsic to their particular style of doing things-- New Information to add to the growing IT hive, uploaded to a server, and downloadable by anybody on the planet or indeed anybody within range that can tap into the infrastructure. New data is being discovered and shared constantly and in real time, publicly owned by the broader human populus with internet connections. Just imagine what is out there still waiting to be shared with everyone! Every single human on the planet will have internet access if they want it within ten years! Forget nuclear fission, Internet is the most powerful force ever created by humankind and one day sooner rather than later it will give birth to the privatized space age as we reach out from the surly bonds of Earth to grasp for a star.....


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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-17-2014, 11:36 AM
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The guy maybe found a person/method he trusted ,and was successful with in XYZ
He was/is happy with the method he chose , which produces the effect's he was/is after.
Is when folks try to incorporate bit's and bob's of several method's when dealing with planted aquarium's that trouble often soon follow's.
Tom Barr suggested best advice I ever got with respect to planted aquariums.
Choose a method and learn it well,then try another.
I have also discovered ,that I had better success myself,by reading many opinion's and then choosing one person's advices based on their knowledge (If it appear's that they are), and follow them rather than trying to adapt everything I have read into my effort's.
If the advice given work's then great, and I could see the gentleman's reluctance to fix what aint' broken.
If the advice does not work,then I may ask my self if I might want to find someone else's advice on same topic and try their approach.
Sometimes too much info can cause us to chase our tail's while not applying ourselves to the basic's.
The internet was not around when I first began keeping tank's/fishes,and I am thankful for the info that's out there.
Just not that much interested in the numerous chemical fixes for problem's in our planted tank's as much as I am interested in the root cause of poor growth/algae problems .
When these are understood,,then good growth happen's and fewer problem's with algae.The gentleman following XYZ 's advices may be growing low light plant's under low to moderate light ,and the growth/plant's ,suit the method chosen.
Same could be said for the guy pumping 35ppm CO2 into his tank with more demanding plant's and more light than the low tech method.
He is satisfied with the method he is using.
Trouble comes I think,,when we try to incorporate high tech method and higher lighting into low tech ,low maint tanks even though we claim to wanna stick with low tech/low maint.
Is natural to wanna increase growth,but different method's require different understanding as to how to achieve desired result's.
My two cent's.

Last edited by roadmaster; 11-17-2014 at 11:54 AM. Reason: addition
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