Forum Decorum - Page 9 - The Planted Tank Forum
 327Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #121 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 03:27 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Greggz's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 4,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asteroid View Post
In addition it's been indicated here that people feel deflated when a member posts pics of his/her success. Didn't realize that was a no-no, it's a public forum for just that purpose.
I have also heard this sentiment lately, and again I just don't get it. When I joined this forum, I couldn't wait to see pics of a successful tank. It gave me hope and something to aspire to.

And IMO, I have seen the vast majority here offer nothing but positive vibes and compliments on all types of tanks. Sometimes it's a few likes or positive comments that encourages someone to go to the next level.

I know when I first posted pics of my tank, Burr offered a few kind encouraging words. It meant a lot to me, and drove me to get better.

And even if a tank has "issues", the vast majority here are kind and offer advice based on their experience meant to help. I have very rarely if ever seen anyone demean a tank no matter the condition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asteroid View Post
That has nothing to even do with what the controversy was here. It's about people pontificating and never having showed a single picture relating to what they are preaching.
Yep, that's what it boils down to.

When folks read posts here, IMO the best advice is caveat emptor. If someone can not show you their results, I would be very suspicious of their advice. Put it this way, if I went to the gym, I wouldn't ask the weakest guy there for tips on weight lifting.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
---
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
---
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Greggz is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 03:40 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
I have also heard this sentiment lately, and again I just don't get it. When I joined this forum, I couldn't wait to see pics of a successful tank. It gave me hope and something to aspire to.
And IMO, I have seen the vast majority here offer nothing but positive vibes and compliments on all types of tanks. Sometimes it's a few likes or positive comments that encourages someone to go to the next level.
The vast majority are positive, because the vast majority are here for the end-product (a satisfying tank). The goal of achieving the end-product is what attracted them to the hobby. There are some self-admittingly are not. I donít even think they have a horse in the race, so the end-result means nothing. It would be like being on a photography site and not enjoying the pictures, but just the camera specs. It isnít even worthy of debate IMO.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Asteroid is online now  
post #123 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 03:49 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Greggz's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 4,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pupfish View Post
It's this kind attitude that seems to get lost sometimes. This forum with its amazing pics of beautiful show tanks chock full of difficult plants, talk of reconstituting RO/DI water, PAR values, CO2, "rolling your own ferts" with obscure micronutrients most newbies have never heard of, etc can be very intimidating to a newbie trying to start a low tech tank with some so-called easy plants and trying to keep the ludwigia from their LFS or Petco alive, and maybe even red.
LOL that is a great paragraph.

But here is the thing. When I first got started, I thought all of this complicated jargon was utter nonsense and most of the folks who were saying it were flat out nuts. Turns out I was wrong. A planted tank, especially a high tech high light planted tank, IS complicated. And if someone wants to improve, it's wise to study up and learn all you can. And even a low tech tank is a balancing act. The really good ones have a lot more going on than most imagine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pupfish View Post
I've seen newbie posts posing a naive question which people jump on with a long list of requirements: we can't help you because you didn't post a pic, you didn't provide a long list of all your parameters (some of which they may have never heard of), or if they do post a pic are told their tank is dirty and/or not doing enough water changes--implying that they're killing their plants out of laziness--when they may have read about Walstad tanks where you leave the mulm in as fertilizer and don't do frequent WC. Not saying this happens all the time, but I've seen it multiple times--and when it does all too often the OP gives up and is never heard from again.
Here's the other side of that coin.

Newbie posts that he has a huge BBA problem. He states that he knows it's the result of too much phosphates, and wants to know what is the best phosphate reducer?

Do you post a link to a phosphate reducer? Or do you actually try to help them?

The only way to truly help someone is understand their tank eco system.

In the situation above, many times when they finally post a picture you see a couple of crypts in a tank with very high light on for 12 hours, no ferts, and little maintenance. Would the phosphate reducer have helped them?

Not likely.

The reality is in order to provide truly helpful advice, a holistic approach is best. Once again, a planted tech, whether high tech or low tech, is a complicated thing. And sometimes helping someone understand that can lead them in the right direction.........or at least help them from banging their head against the wall and giving up.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
---
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
---
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Greggz is online now  
 
post #124 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 05:12 AM
snails are your friend
 
Blue Ridge Reef's Avatar
 
PTrader: (13/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,101
This message board has been responsible for spending more money and time in my aquariums than I have my life -not counting a 5 year insanity period of getting into reefs. (Thank goodness I could use a lot of crossover equipment.) Seeing the beautiful photos of so many of you folk's tanks is what makes me want to raise my own bar. I don't care who you are, if you walk into Greggz house and see that 120 rainbow tank, you're going to take interest. I want my own tanks to do that!

I have kept shrimp for a little over ten years but never had success with bees. But I saw others posting their tanks swarming with babies, saw how they set up their tanks for these and I changed substrates to buffering soils, started using RO water and what do you know? Mine that had lived fine but never berried -started breeding right away. I'm not saying this to say that anyone should be compelled to show photos of their tanks, but I thank those of you who take the time to. They sure can be inspiring. And often very informative. If those helpful people had only written how they set up their tanks and described how many babies were in there -no way that I'd have set up 6 shrimp tanks in the last 18 months. No written post can make you feel "I've gotta have that" the way that a photo can.
Greggz, ipkiss, burr740 and 2 others like this.

Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.

Last edited by Blue Ridge Reef; 02-14-2020 at 03:23 PM. Reason: an "s"
Blue Ridge Reef is online now  
post #125 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 05:21 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
Jeff.....come on now.
Do you really think there are people here posting pics of somebody else's tank, or not being honest about when they were taken?
I mean, at least with the "regulars' here?

.....but with the vast majority here that thought has never crossed my mind.

Just stating the possible.. and no, I doubt few if any faked anything to that degree, either purposely or accidentally.
That said a bit of tweaking (manually or automatically by camera software) can certainly produce "fake" images as compared to real life.
That is relatively common and most of the time err benign and not MEANT to deceive though there is the occasional over-saturation photo which def was on purpose
but those are more to give it a look vs trying to PROVE anything.
Maybe years of putzing w/ photography has me always tweaking it in my head anyways. Software processing, sensor weaknesses, white balance ect..


Maybe I need to ask "Does it really look like that to your eyes" of everyone who posts a photo..
Naaahh not polite..



I have asked "Is that photo look like what you see in real life?" IF it's necessary to the discussion.


And as to "regulars" you prove my point in a way..
Past discourse and I suppose photos (limited use) lead one to trust future posts..


If you said your plant grew a foot in one week I'd trust you. No photos necessary.
If a stranger said the same I'd ask HOW they did it and judge the validity from there..The LAST thing I'd ask is visual proof.
See above and past statements.



If a stranger came here saying they use a 10W incandescent bulb over a 100gal tank and his plants grew 5 feet in a week well I wouldn't even bother w/ a photo and certainly not as a first question.. IF they actually posted a photo I'd have a hard time believing that..thus the limited use of photos..
If they didn't show a photo it doesn't add to my orig. mistrust of the initial premise..So.. whats the point of a photo?



What they says is more important to me than a photo. Again proving my point.
Photos and text form a body of evidence but words coupled with self knowledge and others past experiences are FAR more important than ANY photo.


Point WAS asking for photos as proof of a claim one already considers bunk is a confrontational approach and can be handled differently..
Hey, I've asked for photos to give me an idea of a look or color tone of certain lights so there is some utility in it but it was never to challenge someone.




PERSONAL OPINION.. YMMV.. So I'm done beating this horse.. hopefully.
Greggz and Uncle_R like this.

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
jeffkrol is offline  
post #126 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 05:37 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asteroid View Post
What a boring place reef2reef would be if people didn't show pics. This whole thing is pretty ridiculous
This isn't about eye candy, this is about using pics as a weapon..




Quote:
That has nothing to even do with what the controversy was here. It's about people pontificating and never having showed a single picture relating to what they are preaching.

Sounds like a judgement. I'd bET that there are people who could pontificate to you that you wouldn't dare ask for visual proof.
Doesn't mean you would accept what they are saying but you woudn't ask for visual proof.
If Barr told you adding 10mg of ground pepper colored up red plants would you ask for visual proof? Doubt it.

Ones reputation can over-ride a need of visual evidence.

note to self: STOP reading this thread..
Uncle_R likes this.

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
jeffkrol is offline  
post #127 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 12:55 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
EdWiser's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Louisville,Kentucky
Posts: 324
So since Jeff brought up Reef2Reef.
We have a program called the reef squad. It is a group of forum members that task everyday to answer every unanswered question on the forum. An to jump in and help calm down discussions that get out of hand.
To help create a friendly environment.
Which can be a hard task.
I was one of the first members of the Reef Squad. We now have close to 100 members.
It has been a great program and has made Reef 2 Reef the number 1 marine forum in the whole world. We have hobbyist around the globe now logging on and helping and well as asking questions. Because they know they will get an answer and will be helped with their problem.
I think it would be great for every forum to do this. It helps Moderators have other members working to have member get the answers they need.
So people get their answers and want to participate in the forum and come back every day. As they say that was great I got my answer and it was easy what else can I learn on this forum letís start looking at other post.
Itís creates a friendly atmosphere.
EdWiser is online now  
post #128 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 01:04 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Palm Springs, CA
Posts: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
And even though this isn't your point: that turned out not to be an actual 13-year-old, which... I'm still creeped out by it.
Yikes--talk about trolling...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
LOL that is a great paragraph.

But here is the thing. When I first got started, I thought all of this complicated jargon was utter nonsense and most of the folks who were saying it were flat out nuts. Turns out I was wrong. A planted tank, especially a high tech high light planted tank, IS complicated. And if someone wants to improve, it's wise to study up and learn all you can. And even a low tech tank is a balancing act. The really good ones have a lot more going on than most imagine.

Here's the other side of that coin.

Newbie posts that he has a huge BBA problem. He states that he knows it's the result of too much phosphates, and wants to know what is the best phosphate reducer?

Do you post a link to a phosphate reducer? Or do you actually try to help them?

The only way to truly help someone is understand their tank eco system.

In the situation above, many times when they finally post a picture you see a couple of crypts in a tank with very high light on for 12 hours, no ferts, and little maintenance. Would the phosphate reducer have helped them?

Not likely.

The reality is in order to provide truly helpful advice, a holistic approach is best. Once again, a planted tech, whether high tech or low tech, is a complicated thing. And sometimes helping someone understand that can lead them in the right direction.........or at least help them from banging their head against the wall and giving up.
Completely agree. I was skeptical myself at first, but after doing a lot of reading I started learning the principles behind what makes plants grow well--and that it could apply (albeit in different ways) both in a high tech & low tech setting. But a lot of what gets discussed on here is for high tech tanks with difficult plants, and is not especially useful to a newbie with a low tech tank full of crypts and other (relatively) easy plants. I probably didn't state it very well, but my point is that when we respond to newbies asking for help, we need to break it down and not demand right off the bat a laundry list of tank parameters they need to provide--many of which they may know nothing about. That's the intimidating part for many--and more than once i've seen a newbie just give up after a few tries and is never heard from again.

I sometimes wonder if I'd been better off at the beginning if I'd just stuck with a single great resource like Dennis Wong's excellent website, and spent more time with my sleeves wet, than all the time I've spent reading the wide ranging discussions on here. But when my tank got afflicted with a stubborn case of multiple types of algae, it was the invaluable advice from folks like BlueRidge, Discusluv, PhilEdwards & many others that kept me going. That's the value of this forum community. Some people on here do a great job of meeting newbies where they are and walking them through what they need to know right then, rather w/o overwhelming them. I guess that's what I'd like to see more of on here....

Last edited by Desert Pupfish; 02-14-2020 at 03:42 PM. Reason: edit
Desert Pupfish is offline  
post #129 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 01:14 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Greggz's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 4,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pupfish View Post
]Completely agree. I was skeptical myself at first, but after doing a lot of reading I started learning the principles behind what makes plants grow well--and that it could apply (albeit in different ways) both in a high tech & low tech setting. But a lot of what gets discussed on here is for high tech tanks with difficult plants, and is not especially useful to a newbie with a low tech tank full of crypts and other (relatively) easy plants.
Goes back to finding tanks that are successful with goals similar to your own.

If your plans are low tech, seek out folks that demonstrate success in low tech.

And yes, the discussions on high tech tanks could be overwhelming for a newcomer. It certainly was to me. I thought some here were speaking in tongues.

But the more you read the more it all begins to make sense. Takes time, effort, and thought, but worth it in the long run.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
---
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
---
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Greggz is online now  
post #130 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 01:36 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,561
Stop insulting people. - Moderators
Greggz likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by somewhatshocked; 02-14-2020 at 03:18 PM. Reason: Moderator edit
Asteroid is online now  
post #131 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 02:52 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: PA
Posts: 1,688
This is certainly a "to each their own" issue. I see no value in non-instructional photos, but I also don't value journals. However, my wife cruises this forum occasionally. She even became a member a few years ago and did some posting, but was turned off by some 'men-only' activity in someones journal back then (I forget which one). She likes the pictures and usually only reads the journals ...go figure.
Deanna is offline  
post #132 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 03:10 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,589
Don't engage fools who insult you. - Moderators

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by somewhatshocked; 02-14-2020 at 03:18 PM. Reason: Moderator edit
jeffkrol is offline  
post #133 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 03:15 PM
Obsessed? Maybe
 
somewhatshocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (497/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Middle America
Posts: 14,715
A fun thing you can do if you're participating in this thread? STOP INSULTING OTHER MEMBERS!

If you want to be garbage people, take it elsewhere. Seriously.

Hopefully that's understood. I know it's just a plant forum but if it's not understood, I'll help you find your way(s) out.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

somewhatshocked is online now  
post #134 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 03:28 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Palm Springs, CA
Posts: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdWiser View Post
So since Jeff brought up Reef2Reef.
We have a program called the reef squad. It is a group of forum members that task everyday to answer every unanswered question on the forum. An to jump in and help calm down discussions that get out of hand.
To help create a friendly environment.
Which can be a hard task.
I was one of the first members of the Reef Squad. We now have close to 100 members.
It has been a great program and has made Reef 2 Reef the number 1 marine forum in the whole world. We have hobbyist around the globe now logging on and helping and well as asking questions. Because they know they will get an answer and will be helped with their problem.
I think it would be great for every forum to do this. It helps Moderators have other members working to have member get the answers they need.
So people get their answers and want to participate in the forum and come back every day. As they say that was great I got my answer and it was easy what else can I learn on this forum letís start looking at other post.
Itís creates a friendly atmosphere.
Love this--great idea!
Desert Pupfish is offline  
post #135 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 03:35 PM
Obsessed? Maybe
 
somewhatshocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (497/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Middle America
Posts: 14,715
Who else wants a ten-day break? Anyone?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

somewhatshocked is online now  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome