Forum Decorum - Page 7 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #91 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 03:37 PM
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That's not what occurred. Please stop spreading that.

We've explained this publicly in the past but I'll explain it again: You can't see posts once they're removed from view. You can't see exactly what other members did/said to her. This means you don't know exactly what occurred - even if you were constantly refreshing as the discussion was ongoing. The moderation team was so involved that we had to shut the thread down. It took several hours (hours!) to clean up the mess.

A handful of forum members were nasty - downright disgusting - to Diana as she attempted to explain where she was coming from. In the midst of the nastiness and her responses, dozens of posts had to be removed. They also sent private messages that were beyond inappropriate. Some members were permanently banned, others suspended.

If members of the forum want to be nasty instead of having a cordial discussion, they can take it to the gutters of social media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
With all due respect, both to you and her, she came here and made some statements that are widely disputed and discounted in the hobby. Not by me, but by well known successful people in the hobby.

Would have been nice to have a discussion/debate and sharing of ideas, but in all fairness she didn't seem interested in a discourse like that.
As for trolls?

There are a couple on the forum. Posting photos to back up their claims wouldn't change the fact that they're trolling.

There's not a reason to be a jerk to someone here. It's a plant forum. Use the report function if you see someone trolling. You'll save yourself and everyone else a lot of time.
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post #92 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grobbins48 View Post
It seemes civil and fun!
Do you have any proof of that?
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post #93 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
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Do you have any proof of that?
I can't get my pictures of the proof to post!

I promise... just having fun... not trolling! See the emoji??
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post #94 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grobbins48 View Post
I like to think I am pretty easy going. Just been reading along and enjoying the debate. It seemes civil and fun!
I'm enjoying it, and it's been an eye opener on how others use the forum. I'm terrible at posting pics and rarely do it bc they're usually blurry, and rarely do I have anything that I feel needs to be seen. I just don't take many pictures, but it's something I'd like to work on because I can see how it adds value to the forum experience. I do maybe tend to listen closer to what a member is saying when I've seen great works by them. There's also members who I like to hear what they're doing who don't post a lot of pictures. After a while you kinda feel people out and know who to take with a grain of salt, just like offline. I'm a bit hypocritical here, because I rarely post pics but enjoy seeing others pics.

Another forum I used to be active on was kayak bass fishing. Fishing reports without pics are not as exciting either. But I still found some things interesting in terms of: I went to this location, during this solunar phase, with this change in barometric pressure, used these techniques and produced these results. Much like this forum, it gave me food for thought, then I had the option to try these things and see if it increased my success or not. As well as sharing my successes and failures in hopes of helping others, and to grow myself. Some times you find a game changer, sometimes you just roll your eyes and move on. But there too, I tend to pay more attention to the folks with pics of trophy bass every week
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post #95 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 03:57 PM
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Most authors that I know from my years in the hobby. Donít even attempt to interact with hobbyist any more. Julian Sprung I have known for 35 years. He just doesnít like the hate and jealousy that hobbyist will post to him and many others feel the same was.
The problem most all of us have is that this is a written medium and we are not writers. The written word can be easily interpreted wrong. In person most of forum discussions would be a lot less heated.
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post #96 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
We've explained this publicly in the past but I'll explain it again: You can't see posts once they're removed from view. You can't see exactly what other members did/said to her. This means you don't know exactly what occurred - even if you were constantly refreshing as the discussion was ongoing. The moderation team was so involved that we had to shut the thread down. It took several hours (hours!) to clean up the mess.

A handful of forum members were nasty - downright disgusting - to Diana as she attempted to explain where she was coming from. In the midst of the nastiness and her responses, dozens of posts had to be removed. They also sent private messages that were beyond inappropriate. Some members were permanently banned, others suspended.
Sorry I had no idea all that had occurred, and did not know it reached those levels.

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
shall I dare mention LED vs tubes??
Oh no you didn't!!


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post #97 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 05:19 PM
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I see both sides of the photo debate, and for sure wish everyone posted all of their tanks. There is a ton to be gained just from seeing the same plant you have under a different lighting and care regimen. But shouldn't it be as simple as "post photos if you want to?" I mean, if someone posts that their plant's leaves are looking limp a photo is going to help a ton to determine what's going on. But if they can't or are unwilling to post one, then any advice being made with incomplete information will be on them. And if someone is giving advice or even making a dubious claim, it can be on us to discount them if they don't show evidence. I do get that this could be annoying if a regular member was critiquing and pontificating without ever seeing what they claim works so well for them, but I'd hope that would be uncommon.


A year or two back, someone posted a question deciding between Marineland C series or Fluval FX canister filters for a 125. I have each on my own 125s and answered my thoughts on them. OP asked for pictures. Not in a dubious tone or anything, but I did wonder if they questioned whether or not I actually had two 125's with these filters. So I posted pictures. I think there are situations in which if you make certain statements that you're bound to be asked to show.



There's value to forums that no book can ever hope to have. I enjoyed reading Sunken Gardens but it's never going to answer a direct question about hooking my controller up to a smart plug. I have Dennerle books on shrimp but they won't diagnose muscular necrosis, just to use two of my own recent examples. I've been on a lot of message boards over the last 20 years and most are ghost towns now. We need to try to keep everyone who is a contributor here, here.



I've often wondered if we were in a real face to face setting if the people who have become a "friend" or "nemesis" wouldn't be drastically different. A lot is assumed when reading the typed word.



Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
There's not a reason to be a jerk to someone here. It's a plant forum.
I think rule #1 could really all boil down to this. Don't be a jerk.

Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.
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post #98 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 06:06 PM
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For those troll-y people who spend month after month repeating the same claim without anything to offer for it - those who don't post photos for whatever reason - it's often best to wholly ignore them. Just ignore everything they say or even add them to your ignore list.

If they're trolling, getting ignored will likely eat them alive. Or maybe that's just me being tired of trolls and looking for ways to mess with them without actually doing anything...


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post #99 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 06:28 PM
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No pictures = trolling???
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post #100 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 06:34 PM
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How come we have not talked about the name of this thread yet? Forum Decorum is a pretty sweet name... IMO



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post #101 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
...
Personally, pics are used more as a vanity thing than anything else..with the rare exception of Maryland Guppies "pots"..
They can be both inspiring and deflating to people..
I'm gonna go on a limb here and say the majority of TPTers are here for the end result of their efforts which would be a tank of healthy plants and fish. There are groups that are simply into processes, technology, etc. and don't really care about the end result, which is perfectly fine. But for the meat of the curve I'm going to say most like to see pictures of both fish and tanks. I'm not going to apologize if I take a good picture and it makes someone feel deflated. Not to sound cold, but truthfully that is not my problem.

That's like going to a car enthusiasts forum and not appreciating pics of cars all cleaned up and looking good. Should we remove the TPT Banner pic while we're at it, because most here won't achieve that and they might find it offensive.

In a thread or a post by a certain user, people have a choice whether to enter or not so proceed with caution. I really don't want to upset you.
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post #102 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
For those troll-y people who spend month after month repeating the same claim without anything to offer for it - those who don't post photos for whatever reason - it's often best to wholly ignore them. Just ignore everything they say or even add them to your ignore list.

If they're trolling, getting ignored will likely eat them alive. Or maybe that's just me being tired of trolls and looking for ways to mess with them without actually doing anything...

you obviously don't go to any political forums...
To be honest, at best, I've seen VERY FEW trolls or financial hawkers (trying to pump up sales for a invested product) ..




For the sake of discussion I'll state what I'd call the best way to "confront" something you consider err.. shady..
First isn't to challenge the others "proof" BUT to show them your proof.
Nobody starts out with YOU have to show me..... but I'll show you....



As an example saying like .. "Well this is what I do and this is the results. "I can't see what you are saying is viable."



There no confrontation and a baseline is established.


Personally.. that's the softest way to do it..
Any other way you are assuming yours is the only way..and demand others to defend their "stuff"..



Personally the proof is more on the "other side" than anything..at least as a diplomatic method.


In science if someone publishes a peer reviewed paper that goes against another findings one usually starts by presenting their data and asking why it seem contrary to the "new guys"..

Or that's the way it should be.
This will open a dialoged w/out one or the other party starting out on a completely defensive mode..
Doesn't always go that way.. but that's ego for you.





Just the way I see it..seems as backwards to some I suppose


Very few "concepts" are embedded in stone and need to be modified/adapted to the infinite variable of each.
Take BBA for example.


2 CONTRARY schools of though permeate it.
1) Blackout periods ect

vs
2)more light/CO2/nutrients..


Both work.

Both will probably fail for some individuals..


As my personal opinion the Feed to kill and clean to kill def. holds more promise both in practice and theoretical.
I wouldn't tell people NOT to do a blackout..



Manners start at you..

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
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post #103 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 07:38 PM
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Manners start at you..
Can you provide photos supporting any of your statements? If not, then they are baseless, since proof only exists in photos.

That was the problem with the impeachment trial: no photos.
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post #104 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 07:55 PM
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To toot our own horn, I think we do a pretty solid job of keeping both to a bare minimum - at least with what's visible on the open forum. Trollish behavior usually gets drowned out and those pushing their products or their business get shut down quickly. Which may be why you feel like you see so little of it... and I feel like I see so much of it.

Unfortunately, promotional behavior does happen on a somewhat regular basis. Though we're quick to clean things up where necessary, I wish other members would be a bit more proactive in reporting those things when they do see it. That kind of thing is overwhelmingly what has lead to 99% (maybe 95%? Still really high) of suspensions from this forum the past decade.

Which is all to say... I think this medium is pretty great on that front. We have so little shady behavior and bad actors compared to everywhere else on the internet. Yes, forums have suffered thanks to Fakebook and the other Trash heap, but there's something about this particular hobby that draws in people who want to have frank discussions and explain things without going for the jugular. I like being able to come here to read a 45-page tear down of cheap lighting from fleabay. Or that gigantic thread where the guy spent a few months testing the limits of filtration media with ammonia. Only a tiny percentage of posts are negative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
you obviously don't go to any political forums...
To be honest, at best, I've seen VERY FEW trolls or financial hawkers (trying to pump up sales for a invested product) ..
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post #105 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Deanna View Post
Can you provide photos supporting any of your statements? If not, then they are baseless, since proof only exists in photos.

That was the problem with the impeachment trial: no photos.

well can't show visual proof of that but I have visual proof of my new variety of Anglefish raised in a tank of pure Metricide14..




Believe me.........
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