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post #31 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 12:57 AM
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Would you listen as intently to Tom Barr, George Farmer or a Dennis Wong without pictures/video. Would you hold their methods as valuable without that proof.
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post #32 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
If you're going to proclaim something on the internet it takes pics to be taken seriously. Its been that way from day one. The first meme ever was probably 'pics or it didnt happen'
Burr you always have a way of cutting to the chase.

Well said!
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post #33 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben3721 View Post
Honestly people need to understand it's just a forum, your here on your own will to get help and give it, typically with just a few minutes of your spare time a day. When you post a thread you get replies with various opinions, of which you take with a grain of salt. Everyone's opinions are different, because everyone's experiences are different, some have more experience, some are forum-smart or read a lot. Or some just think of different solutions.

Let everyone post whatever they want to spew, then pick through it and do some of your own googling, and most the time you'll get a good answer.

Honestly nothing irritates me more than getting a bunch of great responses on a thread I made to view then have two people argue with eachother over something small for 6 days, typically within a hour I've read the initial main responses, googled everything, found the answer and have abandoned the derailed thread. I dont have time to read a book of ego fights. Yes you might be able to point something out that someone is clearly wrong about, but do so nicely and briefly, not the whole "I demand prooooffff and formal citations!" Because drama eats a forum, and frankly nobody cares. If someone starts arguing with me, they have their view, I have mine. They have their tanks, I have mine, to each your own, I dont have time to argue with a stranger over some forum ego.

The real problem with forums is the spoonfeeding to very inexperienced new members, if they are spoon fed too much they are unwilling to Google or self research and will believe anything they are told as soon as they hear it out of laziness, which in this hobby is deadly. Social media is typically filled with that fast life mentality, typically those individuals arent into a hobby for the long run.

I have 3 hobbies, fishkeeping, airsofting at events with old friends even though we all have kids these days and I run a multiserver minecraft network I started 7 years ago. I've been active on and hosted many forums that will and have died, why bother building up a reputation to get archived or lost on a abandoned hard drive... Its a personal hobby and when in person none of my forum posts are on my forehead. Most owners of anything in the digital world keep up with it for about 10 years before cutting off their last hosting bill, because life catches up and interests change. Not to mention hardware and software changes screwing hosts over in the long run.


Sorry if that all seemed pessimistic, having a great community that last a long time is great. This is a solid forum that I hope to see around for many more years.

It however is important to keep file backups, have multiple owners with full access if one goes MIA and to stay with leading open source forum software when possible with converters if you want a forum to last 15+ years.
Do you have the examples where you posted threads and people sidelined that thread by arguing points between them?

I have been on this forum for a few years and I seldom see that happen. It is not an issue so rampant on this forum that it is causing serious issues to posters. It happens occasionally.

In the recent post, one that wasnt your thread, by the way--you could have easily stepped out of because you found it so irritating.

The controversy was on the use of 2 members claiming that their beliefs were based on science ( not experience) . In addition, these two were arguing that their opinions were not "opinions" but based on scientific observation/conclusions. Therefore, the call for proof was warranted.


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post #34 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Streetwise View Post
Unfortunately, she left because of negative forum members. That was depressing, especially for this dirt tank guy.
With all due respect, both to you and her, she came here and made some statements that are widely disputed and discounted in the hobby. Not by me, but by well known successful people in the hobby.

Would have been nice to have a discussion/debate and sharing of ideas, but in all fairness she didn't seem interested in a discourse like that.


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post #35 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Asteroid View Post
I think your caught up in thinking the pics are just about showing some eye candy in en effort to kinda "show-off" and they don't represent the tank in it's normal everyday state. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it's not really about that, the pics simply validate what someone has accomplished using certain husbandry skills.

When i do take a pic, i will admit I try to take a good one, since I look at the tank as an art form. Plants do grow, the tank won't always look that way in the pic, but it is still a real representation of what one has accomplished through their technique.
Heck I even provided "bad" pics when something goes south.
Yes I like the good ones better but at least I am willing to share the bad days too!
Never ashamed, things happen to the best of us @ times.

I know you all like my mini solo cups too!


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Growing is not that difficult.
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post #36 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
Like, for instance, against Edward. Over and over again- harping on him.
He has been gone for awhile, I wonder if those involved were successful in finally shutting him down.
Come on now....Edward not only proclaims his method to be the absolute best for every single tank on the planet, but also tells everyone else that if they don't do it his way, they are ignorant and doing it all wrong. For goodness sake, he calls Tom Barr a fraud. He personally called me out many times and told me that basically every single thing I do is wrong, and I had no idea what I was doing (well, I guess he might be right there!).

And he also never, ever, ever had a kind word to say about anybody's tank or efforts.

IMO, if you are going to pontificate to that degree, you better have something to back that up, and not just a couple of pictures from the 90's.
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post #37 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:33 AM
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Heck I even provided "bad" pics when something goes south.
Yes I like the good ones better but at least I am willing to share the bad days too!
Never ashamed, things happen to the best of us @ times.

I know you all like my mini solo cups too!
Hey MG welcome to the party.

Do you know what's interesting? I am betting those debating forum decorum now didn't live through the "micro tox" wars back in 2015. It was viscous, brutal warfare, and I think some are still scarred (I know for sure some are still banned!).

If one gets offended by the mild things that go on here, look up some of those threads (ones that weren't deleted) and you will see it is pretty tame around here these days. Back then it got out of control quickly and was like a no holds barred cage match compared to today!


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post #38 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:38 AM
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Come on now....Edward not only proclaims his method to be the absolute best for every single tank on the planet, but also tells everyone else that if they don't do it his way, they are ignorant and doing it all wrong. For goodness sake, he calls Tom Barr a fraud. He personally called me out many times and told me that basically every single thing I do is wrong, and I had no idea what I was doing (well, I guess he might be right there!).

And he also never, ever, ever had a kind word to say about anybody's tank or efforts.

IMO, if you are going to pontificate to that degree, you better have something to back that up, and not just a couple of pictures from the 90's.
Never a kind word to you, I can understand. The relationship was reciprocal.

But he sure gave some very kind words to me and other newbies that asked for his help. He was kind to me.



The thing is-- I think you all have missed the memo on this forum. It may say The Planted Tank on the top of the frame- but, there are many people here who do not experience this forum the way you do. We are shrimpkeepers, fishkeepers, accidental breeders of fish, and some ( like me) who will never grow great plants. But, this forum has a space for me too.

Several others on this forum, we do not demand pictures of others to make them legitimate in our eyes. Instead-- Tell us how you bred you fish, were able to finally keep your shrimp alive, or got rid of your algae. No pictures necessary. This forum is also a space for stories and connection. Not just pictures.



You might come outside of your own reference of what this forum is and should be and look at how others see it.


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post #39 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:41 AM
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For example, things went off the rails when Walstad stopped by a while back. But guidelines were enforced, offending threads and users were removed, and it seems the community survived. I realize we should strive for better outcomes than "survival," but considering how heated things got it could have been worse. I think we have guidelines and responsible moderators to
thank for that!
I challenged one of her statements made here.
She replied and agreed and all was done!
Yes, it did get ugly as the thread rolled on!
Diana is now a moderator on APC if any are interested.
Many a low tech dirted tank on APC.

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Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
I have seen the demand for pics used as a way of demeaning others -- it is not always meant as a gesture of helpfulness.
Like, for instance, against Edward. Over and over again- harping on him.
He has been gone for awhile, I wonder if those involved were successful in finally shutting him down.
So, if your asking me, thank goodness this motto "pics or didnt happen" is only held to be important by some and not all members here.
@Edward may reply to this???
I've enjoyed PM's with Edward over quite some time.
He has an excellent set of photos in a thread that seems to not always work so well.
Many cannot view all of the 60 something pics.
I surely hope he has not left this community!
Not communicated with him since early November.
@Discusluv pics are and can be important.
Several years ago I was growing large Buce as a stem, planted like a stem.
No one would have believed me unless I posted the pics, I'm just saying!
Sadly I sold all of this off over time but it was impressive!
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Growing is not that difficult.

Last edited by Maryland Guppy; 02-12-2020 at 01:45 AM. Reason: edit
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post #40 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:43 AM
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I am generally friendly with anyone here who has shared their mistakes, regardless of style.

Not easy, but we can stop toxic threads at any time, by denying them replies.

Cheers
I guess I am too new here to figure out where all this is coming from...is there specific people you think are trolling this forum?

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post #41 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post
I challenged one of her statements made here.
She replied and agreed and all was done!
Yes, it did get ugly as the thread rolled on!
Diana is now a moderator on APC if any are interested.
Many a low tech dirted tank on APC.



@Edward may reply to this???
I've enjoyed PM's with Edward over quite some time.
He has an excellent set of photos in a thread that seems to not always work so well.
Many cannot view all of the 60 something pics.
I surely hope he has not left this community!
Not communicated with him since early November.

@Dicusluv pics are and can be important.
Several years ago I was growing large Buce as a stem, planted like a stem.
No one would have believed me unless I posted the pics, I'm just saying!
Sadly I sold all of this off over time but it was impressive!
Yes, not disputing they can be important in some circumstances ( when the Op is happy to share).

But should it be the driver of the forum? A motto for all? No!

PS: Next time you talk to Edward tell them that there are many of us who miss him here.


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post #42 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:49 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
With all due respect, both to you and her, she came here and made some statements that are widely disputed and discounted in the hobby. Not by me, but by well known successful people in the hobby.

Would have been nice to have a discussion/debate and sharing of ideas, but in all fairness she didn't seem interested in a discourse like that.
I wish that we could have had DW share specifically in the Low Tech Forum, so the context would be implied, and any statements would relate to organic potting soil.

While I read all new threads, I can only offer help on small dirt tanks. However, I enjoy reading and learning from all the other threads.

Cheers
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post #43 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:50 AM
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H.. the "micro tox" wars back in 2015.
I've only heard about these great wars in folklore. It must have been something to actually have lived through them.


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post #44 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:56 AM
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I've only heard about these great wars in folklore. It must have been something to actually have lived through them.
I have always thought the same. Found a few of the threads, now seemingly partially cleaned up. What is left is still an interesting read.
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post #45 of 151 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben3721 View Post
Honestly people need to understand it's just a forum, your here on your own will to get help and give it, typically with just a few minutes of your spare time a day. When you post a thread you get replies with various opinions, of which you take with a grain of salt. Everyone's opinions are different, because everyone's experiences are different, some have more experience, some are forum-smart or read a lot. Or some just think of different solutions.

Let everyone post whatever they want to spew, then pick through it and do some of your own googling, and most the time you'll get a good answer.

Honestly nothing irritates me more than getting a bunch of great responses on a thread I made to view then have two people argue with eachother over something small for 6 days, typically within a hour I've read the initial main responses, googled everything, found the answer and have abandoned the derailed thread. I dont have time to read a book of ego fights. Yes you might be able to point something out that someone is clearly wrong about, but do so nicely and briefly, not the whole "I demand prooooffff and formal citations!" Because drama eats a forum, and frankly nobody cares. If someone starts arguing with me, they have their view, I have mine. They have their tanks, I have mine, to each your own, I dont have time to argue with a stranger over some forum ego.

The real problem with forums is the spoonfeeding to very inexperienced new members, if they are spoon fed too much they are unwilling to Google or self research and will believe anything they are told as soon as they hear it out of laziness, which in this hobby is deadly. Social media is typically filled with that fast life mentality, typically those individuals arent into a hobby for the long run.

I have 3 hobbies, fishkeeping, airsofting at events with old friends even though we all have kids these days and I run a multiserver minecraft network I started 7 years ago. I've been active on and hosted many forums that will and have died, why bother building up a reputation to get archived or lost on a abandoned hard drive... Its a personal hobby and when in person none of my forum posts are on my forehead. Most owners of anything in the digital world keep up with it for about 10 years before cutting off their last hosting bill, because life catches up and interests change. Not to mention hardware and software changes screwing hosts over in the long run.


Sorry if that all seemed pessimistic, having a great community that last a long time is great. This is a solid forum that I hope to see around for many more years.

It however is important to keep file backups, have multiple owners with full access if one goes MIA and to stay with leading open source forum software when possible with converters if you want a forum to last 15+ years.
Do you have the examples where you posted threads and people sidelined that thread by arguing points between them?

I have been on this forum for a few years and I seldom see that happen. It is not an issue so rampant on this forum that it is causing serious issues to posters. It happens occasionally.

In the recent post, one that wasnt your thread, by the way--you could have easily stepped out of because you found it so irritating.

The controversy was on the use of 2 members claiming that their beliefs were based on science ( not experience) . In addition, these two were arguing that their opinions were not "opinions" but based on scientific observation/conclusions. Therefore, the call for proof was warranted.
Honestly that thread just didnt seem like a friendly discussion, that's just my opinion. I kinda understand the intent after some of the responses, but just not something most would jump into to discuss as it feels like you need to go such inconvenience to please someone demanding info that you honestly dont really care to provide, even if you can. I used to be all about it, getting all the proof and deep discussions that lead no where, then over time I realize it was just a waste of time because it wouldnt be read anyway, no one wants to read all that. Especially in this generation who just want to get to the point as quickly as possible.

As for the first part about hijacked threads, that's just forums in general that I've been on. Some threads I look at, want to comment, then seeing people argue and I step out. It's been awhile since I've been active here, I've glanced over said threads before, not my thing. It typically is caused by disinformation from new members bumping into someone with experience. Honestly some forums I wouldn't dare mention a complex topic about like ferts or something as it would be derailed. Like on a general fish forum if you say you have 30ppm nitrates and 3ppm phosphates for your planted tank, there is a fair chance someone will drop in and say your nitrates need to be as low as possible and that any phosphates in a aquarium is bad, when clearly its not, its just different community knowledge. Thats my example of threads that turned me away. Which is why I'm on this forum these days for plant related topics. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to state what fish forums I was on in the past.

But if a topic is about something like fish disease, I'm going to post on a broader forum first, even if they dont know as much about plants as a community. I'd rather get a bunch of responses to analysis, rather than pick through a couple vague ones. Unless its related to Co2 or ferts.
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