Hydrogen peroxide drip system - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-10-2020, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
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Hydrogen peroxide drip system

I am an experienced Aquascaper and fish keeper and I've discovered how well hydrogen peroxide works in a planted tank. Visually I see very similar affects as I do with Carbon dioxide. (Bright reds, pearling plants, no algae, and faster growth) I've used co2 on its own at around 1bps on its own without hydrogen. Everything looked great! I still love co2 but from my observations hydrogen seems to help the plants in a different way. Anyways I'm trying to share the information about hydrogen peroxide in a planted aquarium.
I have a few clips of my tank while using hydrogen and not co2 if anyone wants a visual

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-10-2020, 06:35 PM
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I don't think the use of H2O2 long term is good for an aquarium's bacteria colony . It's ok to spot treat to kill algae but not dose the entire tank every single day

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-10-2020, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by monkeyruler90 View Post
I don't think the use of H2O2 long term is good for an aquarium's bacteria colony . It's ok to spot treat to kill algae but not dose the entire tank every single day
I'm doing some more tests with water quality I may even take swabs from the filter to see if the colony is holding up. Regardless I'm going to continue my research and testing to see what exactly is "correct" when using hydrogen

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-11-2020, 01:43 AM
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How is h2o2 injected into your tank?


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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-11-2020, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
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How is h2o2 injected into your tank?


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I use a similar system to drip acclimation to draw hydrogen peroxide into the water

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-11-2020, 04:11 AM
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Ever heard of a "Sochting Oxydator"?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B5X6AE/

I use them in my shrimp tanks to slowly add h2o2 to the water in a very controlled way. There's not much info out there about them, but I heard some good reports from other shrimp keepers, and h2o2 treatments have been quite good for my shrimp tanks, so I figured I'd give them a try when I saw them on specials offer. I added them to my tanks at the same time that various other things came together (good shrimp stock, mature tank, right food, stable water conditions, etc, etc) so it's hard to say how much or little they added to the success of the tanks.

They certainly did no hard at all that I have been able to detect. I have the "mini" version linked above which is rated for tanks up to 60 litres. My tanks are about 11 litres so I use only one of the two supplied catalyst pellets in each one, which I figure downrates it by half, so up to 30 litres. But my tanks are still about a 1/3 of that volume, hence I think I'm at relatively high dosing. That said, the dose is still very low - I guess the 20-30ml in each oxydator lasts 1 to 2 months.

I'm a bit skeptical about the dosing shown in that video. To get that much bubbling would require a fairly high dose of h202 and that is surely not good to the good bacteria in the tank, especially constantly. Also the video is comparing h202 to co2 which seems crazy. Bubbling from h202 treatment might look the same as pearling from co2 injection, but tehy are two completely different things. The bubbles from h202 are not being produced by the plants, only from the h202 oxidising something on their surface.

I really don't buy that the amount of bubbling shown in the video is from the low'ish (1ml per gallon) dose mentioned. Something is not quite right here (based on my own experiments with h202).


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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-11-2020, 04:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by en7jos View Post
Ever heard of a "Sochting Oxydator"?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B5X6AE/



I use them in my shrimp tanks to slowly add h2o2 to the water in a very controlled way. There's not much info out there about them, but I heard some good reports from other shrimp keepers, and h2o2 treatments have been quite good for my shrimp tanks, so I figured I'd give them a try when I saw them on specials offer. I added them to my tanks at the same time that various other things came together (good shrimp stock, mature tank, right food, stable water conditions, etc, etc) so it's hard to say how much or little they added to the success of the tanks.



They certainly did no hard at all that I have been able to detect. I have the "mini" version linked above which is rated for tanks up to 60 litres. My tanks are about 11 litres so I use only one of the two supplied catalyst pellets in each one, which I figure downrates it by half, so up to 30 litres. But my tanks are still about a 1/3 of that volume, hence I think I'm at relatively high dosing. That said, the dose is still very low - I guess the 20-30ml in each oxydator lasts 1 to 2 months.



I'm a bit skeptical about the dosing shown in that video. To get that much bubbling would require a fairly high dose of h202 and that is surely not good to the good bacteria in the tank, especially constantly. Also the video is comparing h202 to co2 which seems crazy. Bubbling from h202 treatment might look the same as pearling from co2 injection, but tehy are two completely different things. The bubbles from h202 are not being produced by the plants, only from the h202 oxidising something on their surface.



I really don't buy that the amount of bubbling shown in the video is from the low'ish (1ml per gallon) dose mentioned. Something is not quite right here (based on my own experiments with h202).
I've done nothing else to create the bubbles purely hydrogen peroxide I'm not sure how else I can prove that to you. Thanks for the product link tho!

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-11-2020, 01:26 PM
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Hi Zach,

Sorry, missed that it was your own video there! No offence intended at all, but I just rewatched and I still find the subtitles confusing and misleading. H202 introduces oxygen into the water, Co2 introduces , well.... Co2! Plants take in carbon dioxide to grow and give out oxygen, hence pearling when they do this really fast. Bubbles on surfaces (plant or otherwise) from h2o2 treatment is not pearling; the plants don't use the oxygen. It is just whatever (organic?) matter that is on the surface being oxidized, at least as far as my rudimentary water chemistry understanding has me believe! The only benefit I am aware of h202 for plants is that it can remove surface algae from the leaves. The only similarity between the co2 + h2o2 is the appearance of oxygen bubbles on the leaves, but with h202 this is not being produced by the plant and is not an indicator of plant health / growth.

h202 will affect all lifeforms at a sufficient dose. Lower level organisms like bacteria are affected at lower level doses, then as the dose in increased it can start to kill algae, shrimp, snails, fish....humans? The key is to pick the dosage to kill off the lower level organisms you don't want, whilst not harming the higher level organisms you do want (and hopefully protecting the beneficial bacteria you want to keep during the treatment, e.g. by not running the filter during treatment). Sufficient dosage to kill snails would probably also be to the detriment of shrimp and fish, so I don't think this is a good treatment option.

The dose introduced by the Sochting oxydators I mentioned is very low and slow, not enough to kill anything. Their function, as far as I can understand, is to provide additional oxygen in the water for livestock. I can't see that constant higher dosing can be a good idea for any tank, but occasional treatments are, I agree, great (especially in shrimp tanks!).

Sorry, not wanting to be argumentative or put a downer on your rather nicely presented video, but I do feel it contains quite a bit of misinformation. And since anything said in a Youtube video seems to become gospel these days, I do think it's important to point this out.

Kind regards, James
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-11-2020, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Zach,



Sorry, missed that it was your own video there! No offence intended at all, but I just rewatched and I still find the subtitles confusing and misleading. H202 introduces oxygen into the water, Co2 introduces , well.... Co2! Plants take in carbon dioxide to grow and give out oxygen, hence pearling when they do this really fast. Bubbles on surfaces (plant or otherwise) from h2o2 treatment is not pearling; the plants don't use the oxygen. It is just whatever (organic?) matter that is on the surface being oxidized, at least as far as my rudimentary water chemistry understanding has me believe! The only benefit I am aware of h202 for plants is that it can remove surface algae from the leaves. The only similarity between the co2 + h2o2 is the appearance of oxygen bubbles on the leaves, but with h202 this is not being produced by the plant and is not an indicator of plant health / growth.



h202 will affect all lifeforms at a sufficient dose. Lower level organisms like bacteria are affected at lower level doses, then as the dose in increased it can start to kill algae, shrimp, snails, fish....humans? The key is to pick the dosage to kill off the lower level organisms you don't want, whilst not harming the higher level organisms you do want (and hopefully protecting the beneficial bacteria you want to keep during the treatment, e.g. by not running the filter during treatment). Sufficient dosage to kill snails would probably also be to the detriment of shrimp and fish, so I don't think this is a good treatment option.



The dose introduced by the Sochting oxydators I mentioned is very low and slow, not enough to kill anything. Their function, as far as I can understand, is to provide additional oxygen in the water for livestock. I can't see that constant higher dosing can be a good idea for any tank, but occasional treatments are, I agree, great (especially in shrimp tanks!).



Sorry, not wanting to be argumentative or put a downer on your rather nicely presented video, but I do feel it contains quite a bit of misinformation. And since anything said in a Youtube video seems to become gospel these days, I do think it's important to point this out.



Kind regards, James
My theory has been that hydrogen killing algae on its own produces oxygen, while allowing the plants to use the nutrients more now that I've essentially removed all algae and types of bacteria this would allow the plants to photosynthesize more efficiently. H202 I don't think is an alternative to co2 it just creates a similar visual affect while also in some ways helping the plant. Not that h2o2 is being used by the plants. I'm sorry if my video didn't quite get that message across I do agree with most of what you're saying though.

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2020, 03:35 AM
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Cheers Zach, makes sense
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2020, 01:48 PM
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This is probably widely known already but as a quick recap: Hydrogen peroxide kills algae off by entering the cells and forming radicals which then bind to important cell structures and rips them apart. It doesn't affect most plants and animals because the barriers that protect cells are different and more resistant. The fizzing you see after dosing it is due to an enzyme inside called catalase which almost all living organisms have that breaks down peroxide (also naturally made inside cells) to oxygen to protect the cells.

Another effect of adding peroxode to the tank is that after it is broken down into oxygen it saturates the water and then any more oxygen that is formed by plants cannot dissolve into the water and forms pearling.

I have been dosing peroxide for a couple weeks now in my main tank. It seems to clarify the water and cut down on surface scum/turbidity.

I would guess that peroxide kills off anaerobic bacteria both in the substrate and filter system. This is the bacteria that causes bad smells and can produce toxic gasses so that is one potential benefit.

A very high dose would of course damage everything and can be harmful but I suspect a lower dose in the 1 - 3 mL per gallon per day range is safe for long term use. Because peroxide is very reactive and breaks down into radicals quickly which bind to almost everything it is rapidly removed from the water column and doesn't hang around very long. This makes it fairly benign for regular use.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2020, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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This is probably widely known already but as a quick recap: Hydrogen peroxide kills algae off by entering the cells and forming radicals which then bind to important cell structures and rips them apart. It doesn't affect most plants and animals because the barriers that protect cells are different and more resistant. The fizzing you see after dosing it is due to an enzyme inside called catalase which almost all living organisms have that breaks down peroxide (also naturally made inside cells) to oxygen to protect the cells.

Another effect of adding peroxode to the tank is that after it is broken down into oxygen it saturates the water and then any more oxygen that is formed by plants cannot dissolve into the water and forms pearling.

I have been dosing peroxide for a couple weeks now in my main tank. It seems to clarify the water and cut down on surface scum/turbidity.

I would guess that peroxide kills off anaerobic bacteria both in the substrate and filter system. This is the bacteria that causes bad smells and can produce toxic gasses so that is one potential benefit.

A very high dose would of course damage everything and can be harmful but I suspect a lower dose in the 1 - 3 mL per gallon per day range is safe for long term use. Because peroxide is very reactive and breaks down into radicals quickly which bind to almost everything it is rapidly removed from the water column and doesn't hang around very long. This makes it fairly benign for regular use.
I normally run a drip system, I figured it goes around 1 drip per 10 seconds I run it for around 3-6 hours it seems to be a safe level since it's slow and it has time to evaporate during the photo period. In the early stages of my aquariums I use much higher doses to kill off pest and algae for a few weeks then take it completely off hydrogen peroxide after adding fish. But in this set up I've been running it daily in smaller amounts I still don't have fish but I'm going to shortly it's been around 16 weeks since I've started it (yes that's a long time) I do appreciate your input, that information is actually very helpful!

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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-15-2020, 04:28 AM
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And all the while during the drip the filter is running? When Iíve treated my tank with H2O2, I turn off the filter for an hour, as Mark Shrimp Tank advises in his video for treating.

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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-24-2020, 08:31 PM
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Keep us updated!

I've got a second peristaltic pump and could set it up to micro dose peroxide as well. I might give it a try and see if there's a difference with water column dosing constantly vs spot treating.

My nannacaras spawned in the tank though so I may hold off for now.

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